Confidence in Color with Tamisha Anthony
SHOW NOTES
In today’s episode, Tamisha discusses:
Her career as an illustrator and children's book author
How her personal style evolved and helps her be seen for who she truly is
Her background in dance and the decision to transition out of it to protect her mental health
Body image and the pressure to conform to certain standards in the dance industry
How to identify “good stress” and move through the discomfort
Tamisha Anthony is an illustrator working for various clients such as Penguin Random House, Macmillan Publishers, Little Brown, and Chronicle Books. She finds that educating little ones or the young at heart always inspires her art. She has been an educator for the past several years teaching at institutions such as the New-York Historical Society and the Harlem School of the Arts. Currently she is teaching an art history + illustration class called Redrawing Black History with Lilla Rogers for Make Art That Sells. She writes and illustrates the article “Spilling the Tea with T” for Uppercase magazine, and writes her own whimsical picture books stories she looks forward to publishing in the future.
Originally from Texas, she received her Bachelor's degree in Psychology and Visual Arts from Rice University and moved to New York City for her Master’s Degree in Computer Art from School of Visual Arts.When she isn’t illustrating, you can find her enthusiastically and joyfully swing dancing with her husband! Or you can find her snuggled up with her pets, reading a book and drinking tea. She adores vintage clothes, gardening, and singing sweet jazz standards.
Follow along on Tamisha’s journey: @tamisha.anthony
TRANSCRIPT
Jessica
Hello and welcome to The Story Project. Today’s guest is Tamisha, an illustrator working for various clients such as Penguin Random House, Macmillan Publishers, Little Brown, and Chronicle Books. She finds that educating little ones or the young at heart always inspires her art. She has been an educator for the past several years teaching at institutions such as the New-York Historical Society and the Harlem School of the Arts. Currently she is teaching an art history + illustration class called Redrawing Black History with Lilla Rogers for Make Art That Sells. She writes and illustrates the article “Spilling the Tea with T” for Uppercase magazine, and writes her own whimsical picture books stories she looks forward to publishing in the future.
Originally from Texas, she received her Bachelor's degree in Psychology and Visual Arts from Rice University and moved to New York City for her Master’s Degree in Computer Art from School of Visual Arts.When she isn’t illustrating, you can find her enthusiastically and joyfully swing dancing with her husband! Or you can find her snuggled up with her pets, reading a book and drinking tea. She adores vintage clothes, gardening, and singing sweet jazz standards.
In today’s episode, Tamisha discusses how her personal style evolved, leaving her career in dance to protect her mental health, body image and the pressure to conform to certain standards, how to identity “good stress” and her journey towards living her dream.
Please enjoy this episode with Tamisha Anthony…
Hello, Tamisha.
Tamisha Anthony
Hello, hello, Jess. It's so good to be talking with you today.
Jessica
It's so fun and exciting. So I'll just start off with a little explanation of how we know each other because it is such a roundabout thing. But so my partner's mother is the wonderful Lila Rogers art agent, E-course teacher, illustrator, all of the things. And Tamisha is one of her favorite
Tamisha Anthony
Oh, that's really sweet.
Jessica
who is a friend and a collaborator, and they have a course together on Lilla's e-course platform called Make Art That Sells, and the class is Redrawing Black History. So that is our background. So I would jump into some face, some Zooms that Lilla would have with Tamisha.
Tamisha Anthony
Yes, yes, it's correct. Yes. No, that's perfect.
Jessica
And the last zoom, I was like, I don't remember how it came up, but it somehow came up for you to do this. Did I say it?
Tamisha Anthony
I think we were just vibing. I feel like we're just like, I was liking your clothes and your energy and stuff. You're like, what'd you want to do this? And I was like, yeah, I would love to. I love to sit and chat with you. I love to meet you in real life. That would be so much fun. Yeah. Yes.
Jessica
Yeah. I know, same. We have to make that happen. That's definitely on the to-do list. But I have to say that, so Tamisha, as you'll see in the pictures I post and any clips that I post of this, is bright and sunny and always is wearing color and just a very joyful, energetic presence.
Tamisha Anthony
Yes. Hehehehe. Thank you.
Jessica
Everything I wear basically is like black or like neutral or whatever. So this morning, such a New Yorker, but I've been trying to branch out. But the thing is, I noticed this morning, I was like, okay, I want to wear a bright shirt and I want to put something fun in my hair because I really want to like do Tamisha proud. And I was looking through everything and I have a couple of colorful pants.
Tamisha Anthony
Such a New Yorker. Mm-hmm. Yes!
Jessica
but I couldn't find that much color for the top. So I decided to go for a white. And then I was looking all around Lila's studio for something fun that I could put in my hair. And I found a couple ribbons, but they just weren't working. So I just went with a high pony and a white t-shirt and that's the best I could do.
Tamisha Anthony
Mm-hmm. Yes! The high pony is really cute. I think you look adorable. And I have a white shirt on too, so we're matching up. Yes. Yes, yes. Hehe
Jessica
That's true. That is so true. Not planned. Everybody not planned. Except your white shirt is a gorgeous blouse that has red trim and matching pom earrings. Oh my gosh. So sunny and I'm...
Tamisha Anthony
It's funny, it's- It's my 1950s shirt that I'm wearing. Love the vintage. Yes, yes, yes.
Jessica
I was about to say, of course it's going to be vintage because that is the vibe. So yeah, I just wanted to give that little backstory and tell you that I really was thinking of how to match your energy this morning. And this was the best I could do.
Tamisha Anthony
I really love that. Your energy already matches mine. You're like bright and sunny and like flowers whenever you talk and whenever I see you. So you don't need color. You bring color. Yes.
Jessica
Oh my gosh. Oh, thank you. Okay, all right. So I'm gonna start by asking you, why is color important to you and why is your style important to you? And how did you just, how did you explore it and come to be who you are with it?
Tamisha Anthony
That's a good question. I mean, I've always loved color since I was little, I was like, I mean, all kids have a favorite color, but I felt very strongly about my favorite colors. And when people liked other colors that wasn't that color, just like, oh my God, what are they thinking? What do they see? That's not the best color combination. But yeah, I think I really started thinking about the colors I was wearing. Whenever I actually had a friend in dance class say, Tamisha, you wear all these pastels, but your skin tone is just screaming for bright colors. It was like, it really resonated. And I was just like, I started looking, like when I was window shopping, looking at colors and started playing around with brighter colors. Because before then...
I think I wore a lot of pastels and whites. I never wore a lot of black. I've never been a person that wears black or have black shoes. But yeah, I started dipping into brighter colors. And then I reinvented myself in a way whenever I was moving to New York. I was like, oh, this is a chance. Like many people say, to be a whole different person or truly be myself. So I actually like did sketches of like the clothes I was gonna wear with my roommate. We were both moving together. We were both going to art school. We had like our little mood board that we did of like, this is how we're gonna feel. This is how we're gonna look. We got rid of clothes like, ah, this is for like this juvenile clothes. You know, we're 23 now. We're gonna look really, really grown up, really chic. So yeah, I intentionally did it. And then I go vintage shopping all the time. So.
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
I just started to find things that I just like really wanted to see that made me happy. Basically I saw clothes, it made me smile and it's like I want to smile all day because you know New York is rough. So I just wore things that made me happy and smile and that tend to be like florals and bright colors and things that are kooky. A little some things are a little bit more graphic. I like very clean lines like this shirt. Just
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
Things like that, yeah. And now my whole wardrobe is just like a rainbow.
Jessica
Oh, that's so lovely. I'm working on it. I'll get there.
Tamisha Anthony
Well, you don't have to wear color though. I feel like I envy people that can style themselves in like neutrals, because I'm not able to do that. And it's a hard thing to do. Like I've tried to wear black and it just falls flat. There is some layering and yeah, there's some talent in mixing those colors, I feel like the neutrals. And if you have it, you have it. So.
Jessica
Hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
It's not like I wouldn't want to try. Sometimes I have tried in the past to wear neutrals, so people would take me more seriously. It's a woman because I have a baby face, which is, yeah, I didn't do it for long because I don't feel like me. I'm not presenting my most confident self. I'd rather in some other way demand them look at me, they'll see me, to hear me, then change what I'm doing externally whenever this is like.
Jessica
Hmm. Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
my expression, my artistry, like the thing that I find easiest to express and put out there than even with my illustration or dance or anything is the clothing. Yeah.
Jessica
Mmm. Well, that's a really important point to think about putting yourself out there and letting someone see you for who you are. And I know for myself, a lot of what I was wearing was about hiding my body or hiding myself. And so you can do that best in my, for me, in black. It covers things up. And if I was uncomfortable, yeah, I think that it starts
Tamisha Anthony
Mmm. I see. I never even thought of that.
Jessica
started for me as a dancer for sure. And I think you have these requirements of what you're going to wear. Like we had to wear a black leotard and pink tights, which is a whole other conversation that we could get into. But you have that structure. And then when I was not comfortable in my body, I would just pile things on top of it and not think about it. And so I think when I say I'm working on it, it's to open that up.
Tamisha Anthony
Yes, yes. Yeah. I see.
Jessica
and think about how can I be seen and how can I pick something that feels empowering? Because sometimes when I wanna rock my black sweatpants and my big black sweater and my random sneakers, I'm so cool with that. I don't feel like I need to change that, but to have, when you want to express yourself in a different way or you want to practice being seen a little bit more, that is one way to get into it.
Tamisha Anthony
I see. Yes, yes. Yeah, I love that. Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
Yes.
No, that's true. That's true. I never even thought of it like that. Because I think because I was so shy as a kid, and I'm still shy and awkward, but I've learned to talk more. But I've learned like clothes was a way that I could express myself without talking. So it was kind of that way. I'm like, oh, I have a starter conversation now. People are going to say, like, oh, I like this hat you're wearing or I like this dress or belt. And we have something to start the conversation with. So I'm not freaking out about like, oh, my God, what do I say? You know?
Jessica
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
I don't have to like think about the conversations prior to meeting up with this person. It kind of helped me with my shyness and awkwardness. And I think I continue to do that. So in a way I am hiding. This is kind of like my Superman wardrobe. You know, I got into the world and I feel confident. But like I'm showing people what they can see. It's like, this is what you're allowed to see of me. This is what you're allowed to take in. This part of my personality. And then I can be all of myself once I go back into my cocoon, into my home. So it's so strategic in a little way, but it does it does help me pop out the parts of myself that I want to. And I love that. Yeah.
Jessica
Yeah, yeah. And do you feel like there's any element that, I mean, you can't really separate how you present yourself and your style from your career because there are ways of course that it's going to inevitably intertwine, but are there ways that you can say, hey, I am expressing myself in this way, this isn't explicitly for my career, like my illustration, like my books. And so this is a little bit freer. I don't have to think about any of the business or professional aspect of it.
Tamisha Anthony
Mmm. Yeah, definitely. I honestly don't think about the career aspect of it very much at all unless I'm doing, like I'm doing educator work with children or I'm going to do a reading with children. Otherwise, like the way I dress is, I mean, it connects, I guess, to my career very well, seamlessly, and I think the way I dress came first.
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
and then the other things came. So maybe I drew the attention to people from my energy. I mean, even with Lila, we met and we both loved vintage styles and the way we dressed. And that's what initiated our friendship. So I think in some way, like the way I dress kind of pulled me along to the pathway to my career, along with working really hard and things like that. But I do find myself dressing….
Jessica
Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
I don't show a lot of skin of course when I'm with kids, but I do like when I go out to dinner with my husband and stuff like that, I wear things with a deep V cut or things like that. Like I branch out, I don't worry so much about what my parents are gonna be, sorry, if I'm not gonna be like on a video or if I'm not gonna be around children or sitting on the floor and playing, like that's really what.
Jessica
Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
a lot of my wardrobe changes came from. Like I'm teaching kids, I have to sit on the floor and be able to get up and yeah, roll around and play and get glue on things and not like, not cry and things like that because I've lost like some vintage things. So yeah, I haven't really thought so much about my clothes with illustration. I thought about it more, I think whenever I was.
Jessica
Mm-hmm
Tamisha Anthony
performing a little, you know, I performed like as a dancer, as a part, like a jazz dancer, swing dancer, partner dancing. And I thought about it a little bit more then because I was working a lot with my then partner. He's my husband. And he, like, I, I notice so much more like as, as being dance partners that everyone listened to him more than me and looked to him for all the answers even if I was running something even if I we were partnering and I talked the entire time like I talked the entire time I just used him as like a movable dummy right people would still be like oh my god you know Craig that's his name Craig you're so amazing I like what you said about this and this and he would just like he would know too he would just look at me he's like I said nothing I said nothing this entire class it
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
experiments we would do to see. And I'm like, that's when I started trying to wear darker clothes. I didn't wear like hair, hair scarves. I tried to wear, look more business-like, kind of make sure my makeup was a little bit more serious, but I felt like that was making me drown.
Jessica
Hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
Like I couldn't be myself. I couldn't quite change my personality quite enough to be, because I'm kind of, I mean, I'm a bubbly person and that's who I am. I get excited about little things. You know, I'm the person that goes outside and I see a really good stick and I'm like, oh my God, that's a great stick. And I pick it up and take it home. So I get excited by the tiniest things. And so.
Jessica
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
Yeah, I didn't want to change that childlike quality that I had, which I think helps with all my art. So I was like, screw it. Okay, I'm not going to try to change the way I dress. I'm just going to push harder, be a little bit more aggressive, kind of. Not that that's taking well either. So, but ultimately I switched what I was doing. Not that I say people should do that, but for me, that was the right choice….
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
to transition to a different career. I'd always planned to be a visual artist in the dancing, although I've danced all my life, kind of just happened. I kind of fell into it. And it felt, at the beginning it felt safe and like a beautiful community.
Jessica
Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
And it's still a beautiful community. It's just like for me, doing it professionally was not good for my mental health. So, and I find like working with my art and telling stories and I mean, children are always loving and beautiful and let you know exactly what they're thinking, which is refreshing for me. Know like, oh my God, what does that face mean? What does that comment mean? What is that gonna do to my career? Da da da, da da. It's just, it's lovely. And children's publishing. People are always so kind.
Jessica
Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
in that too and let you explore, give you space to really be yourself. So yeah, I think I transitioned in the right direction for me, for me and my personality and feeling acceptance of being who I am. So yeah.
Jessica
Yeah. Great, that's amazing. Can you tell us more about your history and background in dance and then eventually the transition out of it?
Tamisha Anthony
Yeah, so I didn't start really, really young. Some kids start, you know, two or three. I started whenever I was 11, but I started like jazz and tap, doing things like that. I really wanted to be, if you're from the South, I don't know, like drill team? Have you heard of drill teams? Okay, I really wanted to be drill team in high school. I had a goal to be like the captain. So yeah, my grandmother put me into dance class and I was...
Jessica
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Tamisha Anthony
I was super shy then. I was the worst performer at that time. Like I knew it too, cause they stuck me in the back and I was with younger kids. Like I was 11 and I think the average age was like eight. There were seven and eight year olds. I was, I'm a short person and I was taller than everyone. So I was like, oh my God, I got to get out of this after the first performance. So I started like pushing myself and then yeah, I started like taking several dance classes, doing,
Jessica
Hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
some competition stuff. I joined the dance team and the drill team. I did the whole officer thing like lieutenant and captain and all this stuff. I did the Macy's Day parade. I was in that for dance and yeah. And then like after high school, I considered to continue, consider continuing dancing afterwards, but I really most of all wanted to move to New York in whatever capacity I could do that.
Jessica
So cool.
Tamisha Anthony
So before I do that, yeah, I agreed with my family that I would stay closer to home. So I'm from Henderson, Texas. And as close as I could stay to home to me was going to Rice University in Houston. And there, like I continue to do dance team stuff. Like I dance for basketball, their basketball team and their football team, sometimes for baseball, I think. And yeah, I did captain. I was the captain over that team once I was a junior or senior. And then I moved to New York and I started going to dance classes in New York and kind of trying to find a community there because usually like with the teams you're always around the same people, you get to know them a little, they're like family a little bit and I wasn't finding that as much in New York as I hopped around to different dance studios and also the energy wasn't all of
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
about being collaborative, which is what I really wanted. I always felt like that fed my creativity in dance and pushed me to be stronger and better and more connected to my artistry. So it took a few years. It was probably after grad school, I had taken classes at
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
every main studio in New York City. I tried to kind of make friends, kind of fail at it. But I went to Midsummer Night's Swing at Lincoln Center. And I was like, this is amazing. Look at all these dancers. They're happy. They're wearing bright colors and flowers and their hair. And I was like, I wanna be part of this group. So immediately after that, I started taking, swing dance classes at Dance Manhattan, although that place is not open anymore, it was the best place ever in Chelsea. Um and yeah I just got so addicted because there was the community again, like there was people lifting you up, there's people that want to practice outside of class with you and like work on different things and I was yeah.
Jessica
Hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
I think I devoted, I stopped doing art. I devoted my whole life to just doing this. I had a full-time job at that time at School of Visual Arts library, but like every second outside of that, I was dancing. I would leave work, I would go to a dance or I'll go to a class and I'll go to a social. And then I would hang out with people after the social and they would get drinks and they would start, like it was just like, it was my family and it felt beautiful and great. And
Jessica
Hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
Since I had dancing background, and I think the swing dance and jazz is just kind of connected to me, like vernacular jazz, not jazz, like we think of it on Broadway. Yeah, I started getting gigs from it. They were looking for...
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
other people to do gig work, which I loved because I love costuming and makeup and glitter and glam. So yeah, like I got hired to my first job was being hired to dance at the Rainbow Room. I was just like, I was supposed to warm the floor. I was supposed to look pretty and warm the floors. And I was just like, this is the best gig ever. I get to eat food. I get to dance. And I get to wear my pretty gowns. And this is all I have to do. I just have to encourage other people to dance, essentially, and dance with someone from the community. So from there, it kind of, it built up. I started doing like chorus girl gigs for like, we had like a group of girls that would perform and dance together at different clubs in New York or different events that we were hired.
And I also started dancing with my husband, Craig. He was my dance partner most of the time, because we like...The first time we danced together, we just really connected. It was just like we were in audition. I didn't have anyone to dance with. Everyone looked terrifying to me. And I saw him with his like really big brown eyes. And I was like, oh my God, he's safe. He's gonna be kind to me. So I asked him to dance. And then our first dance was just like.
Jessica
Hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
Awesome, it was electric. We were riffing off of each other with our movements over our feet and everything. It was like the perfect song. I don't remember, it's just like, I remember the dance. I remember that one dance. And I was just like, oh, like we're connected. This is my friend. And yeah, and we just kind of stayed connected since then. We were dance partners. They always put us together as dance partners for gigs. And we started teaching together like in Harlem. And had other teaching gigs for different universities. I was gigging like full time. I quit my job to do all like teaching dance and working as a dancer, a chorus girl or partner dance or whatever. It just was, it was difficult like with my personality. The best way I can explain it is that I showed up for a dance rehearsal one day and there was just this man, this kind looking cherub of a man sitting in the corner, right? And he reminded me of like Clarence from It's a Wonderful Life, but Black, Black Clarence from It's a Wonderful Life. And he said like, what are you doing here? And I was like, well, I'm getting ready for class. Like I'm rehearsing for a performance. And I was the only one there. And he's like, oh, this world is not made for you. He's like, he told me that directly. Just after looking.
Jessica
Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
into my like looked at my face looked into my eyes. He's like, how are you getting along? I was like, it's kind of rough. Like, some people don't treat me so kindly. I'm having trouble like with body images and stuff like that. And he's like, either like I need to turn more into a tiger, or I got to get out. And honestly, after that, some more things went down that I was just wasn't good for my mental health. And I was like, I don't know this little
Jessica
Hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
little man that could read my soul, maybe understood, I don't know. And I always remember him. I remember his little face and no one else talked to him or saw him. It made me feel like I created him from my imagination, but he was gone by the time all the other dancers came. But I was like, he could see directly into my heart and how it was feeling and how it was coping with like the last couple of years of trying to be a performer and how. Whereas my dance was.
Jessica
Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
Dancing was good. I liked, I still always loved dancing. I still love it now. It just doing that full time as a performer and interacting with other dancers wasn't great for me. And it was just like spiking my anxiety, increase my depression. It just, it was really difficult for me. And then it's always a struggle to, I mean, it's a struggle to make it as an artist. It's hard even as an illustrator, but.
Jessica
Mm.
Tamisha Anthony
It was such a struggle to make it as a dancer. And I just like, I wanted to be full-time. I didn't want to do anything else. Either I'm teaching dance or I'm dancing. That's how I'm gonna do it. And I mean, it's hard to get by on just doing that. And you end up taking offers and gigs and stuff that you don't really want to do and then you're not giving your all. And that's not very professional. So it was a difficult cycle. And I was like, oh, and when I'm stepping back from it, like several years later, I kind of allowed myself to be pulled in that direction. I didn't have a direction for myself. Originally I wanted to do animation and illustration and it wasn't happening at that time. And then this like big shiny thing started happening for me. You know, it felt glamorous, like I have great costumes, like, you know, we have people cheering for you. You do solo dances. It's great. It feels amazing for that moment, but it wasn't really leading me towards the direction I had initially planned. And it was just like, yeah, just a little addiction of feel-goods. And yeah, in my body and my mind was telling me like, oh, this isn't the right direction. Little Clarence man in the corner was telling me it was not the right direction. And...
Jessica
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
It took me a really long time to realize it myself until like, you know, I had, I started having lots of panic attacks and things like that. And I was just like, Oh, I can't do this anymore. It's like, I kept getting more and more, um, interesting offers. I was, um, I was given the chance at like the, the place that I said that I first saw Swing Dancing at Lincoln Center. Like I was given the opportunity to be the teacher and do a performance there at the outside stage, which is major for a swing dancer, right? I was like, oh my God, you have made it. This is it. I could not do it. Like I started, like as soon as I got that offer, I started having panic attacks every morning. I ended up giving it away to somebody else that I thought was worthy. And then I just cut.
Jessica
Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
Oh, like I finished up the gigs I was signed up for and then I told everyone like, I'm leaving the swing dance world for now. Like I just need to step away and kind of try to take care of myself and figure out when the world is going on with me. But which I'm glad I did. I'm glad I did, because I'm so much healthier now. And I still have lots of anxiety and I have lots of depression, but I'm better than I was like…
Jessica
Mm.
Tamisha Anthony
At that point, it was so hard for me to even sometimes like get out of the house and like, or go into the city because I just felt so overwhelmed by so many people around me. And that's so isolating. So it just continued to feed off of each other, like the negativity and not getting out and feeling bad about myself and panic. Yeah. So, um, I think that was the right step for me. I know it was the right step for me.
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
And like I'm trying to get back into dance a little bit now, just as an actual hobby. Like whenever I hear music in New Orleans, which is where I live right now, I take the time to dance a little with my husband, but we're also trying to do ballroom dancing. I just wanna, I just kinda wanna learn any and all dances and reconnect that to my soul. Like when I was little, when I just loved performing and loved moving and love expressing myself. So.
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
Wow, I did a really long spill of this thing. Oh. Okay.
Jessica
It was beautiful. It was beautiful. And thank you so much for sharing all of that. It's a really common theme that we hear both on this podcast and when I'm talking to people around me, where you have a passion and you have a love and it turns sour, it turns anxiety inducing and that has been something that I've personally struggled with a ton in the industry and I think it's really
Tamisha Anthony
Yes.
Jessica
I think it's such an empowering and brave decision to walk away from something you love because it's impacting your health so severely. And it's not a story that we hear very often because we more hear how do you persevere? How do you push through? How do you deal with it, deal with it, deal with it? And the reality is that you don't have to, and it's okay. And you might find a brighter side on the other end. I don't know what that meant. You might find that the grass is greener actually where you do go over there. I can't think of a good metaphor to say.
Tamisha Anthony
No. Definitely. the brighter side too. The other side of it could be brighter. I like that and it was for me and I think you have to figure out what's worth fighting for. Like I, and what's your good stress? This is what I talk about with my husband all the time. As much as I love dance and it was good stress for me whenever I was younger, like as a tight community team group, it wasn't good.
Jessica
Yeah. Hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
stress for me when I was competing against every individual. It didn't, yeah, in the children's book world, I have lots of stress. There's lots of deadlines. I'm insecure about myself all the time. Those things don't go away, but it's good stress. Like I feel myself like persevering and building myself up from it. Whereas with dance, I constantly was being knocked down internally, not even just externally, internally. And it just… It wasn't good stress. Those opportunities I was getting should have made me feel like, oh my God, this is great. I love this. I'm like, I'm achieving what I want. And instead it made me feel like I was going into a deeper hole. And it felt silly from the outside for everyone for me to quit because I stopped whenever I was starting to peak. But...
Jessica
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
It's like, you don't see me inside my room and what I have to do to get out. And I was like, I can't live my life like this. Even like a few more months. Like I just I can't continue this. There has to be. There has to be the good stress, and I know what that feels like now. So I kind of run from things now that like if it's bad stress, if it's if I don't feel like I'm growing…
Jessica
Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
in it a little bit, that I'm challenging myself in a good way, that I've connected to myself, I'm still connected to my inner being, then I need to walk away from the thing. And I'm kind of better at not signing up for things that are not good for me anymore. I take more time in the process and think about it before, because I don't want to end up in a whole different life again, where I'm just like, what am I doing? Why am I here?
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
this is not where I was supposed to be. So yeah, I think it's good to like sit and think in question and tweak things as you go along. Even if you're like yes to it and you two, three days later, you're like, oh my God, no, I shouldn't have done that. Like it's okay to walk away as long as you're professional and you do it in time, like soon enough, get the person time. Cause I've done that a lot and it's kind of been my saving grace to like keeping level-headed and actually achieving things that I really want to achieve in my life. And then also having a personal life, you know, having hobbies, I know, right? So excited to like, everything isn't just my career. And I tend to be a workaholic, it's a thing, but like I do try to make time for just making things for fun. Like I'm a creator at heart. So like...
Jessica
Wait, what? What's that?
Tamisha Anthony
if I want to make costumes or something like that, then I'm like, okay, this is what I do in the evening. This is what I do to relax, but to express my artistic flair in a different way than my job. So, yeah. And I've found that in the last year. I made an effort to do it. Again, I plan a lot of things. I write things out. It's like, you know, yes, you have to, or it doesn't happen, I feel like.
Jessica
Mm-hmm. Same.
Tamisha Anthony
You just keep thinking about it rather than doing it. You know, write it out, I post it on my wall. I look at it every day. You know, it's like, what is this year about? This year is about transitioning to like having hobbies and a more balanced life. And yeah, I think you try to make choices to make that happen. So.
Jessica
Mm. It's so interesting you say that because the most recent podcast episode with Karma, she was talking about how she is taking the complete opposite approach and she's no longer planning things or trying to set these goals or anything like that and how it's working for her. And that's where it comes in that everyone is different. You have to do what works for you. But ultimately, what I see when you say that is...
Tamisha Anthony
Really! Ah! Yes, yes.
Jessica
having clarity because you know that you can be taken in any direction in this life. And the thing is that happened with dance is that you pursued it and you were following your heart until it was dimming your light, until it wasn't serving you anymore. And also just to quickly circle back to that conversation, you said that in your heart, at your heart, at your core, you are a creator. And what happens a lot of the time is
Tamisha Anthony
Yeah, yes. Yes.
Jessica
in any given craft, but we'll talk about dance because we both have that mutual experience. You have it as your passion, as your love, and then it becomes a job. And you have to do certain things to make certain people happy, to get the paycheck and all that stuff. And it's not to say that there's anything wrong with that if that's what you want to do as your career and have jobs like that. But if it's impacting you,
Tamisha Anthony
Yeah, not at all.
Jessica
so negatively that you're struggling to get out of bed and to get to these jobs and to care for yourself anyway, then it's not working anymore. And it's when you go through the breakup of that experience, there is a mourning and a grief. And it can be really hard to reconnect in a way that actually feels authentic and right for you again.
Tamisha Anthony
Yeah. Exactly. Mm. Yes, it lasts for years! It is, that is so true. I'm glad that you said that. Cause I honestly… still struggling with that. You know, I find it hard to not like, I think a two weeks ago.
Jessica
Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
I went out and I did a little swing dancing, but it's so hard for me to do now just like socially, just kind of like whenever you hear a band playing and like you're around a lot of other swing dancers, well, because the community is small. So as is worldwide, but it's small. So the people that I knew in New York, know the people in New Orleans, knew that I performed and then, you know, they're trying to bring you back, bring you back in, but like, but you danced so well, and you can do this gig, you can do this. And I'm just like, oh my God, like, I love swing dancing. And I love you guys, like, whenever I'm not performing, but as a performer, I can't get into it. Then I have a lot of guilt. It's like, oh, I'm not holding up, like, this community. And like, you know, part of this, cause I'm black, and you know, swing dance comes from, like, Harlem, and like, African Americans. And I should really be like,
Jessica
Mm-hmm. Hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
showing people this dance and encouraging it to live on. And I'm not doing that for this group of people. There's just a lot of things built back, especially I'm able-bodied, I can do it. They don't understand why, but it's a mental thing. It's so hard for people to understand that so much, especially whenever my personality is so bubbly and up. I'm an introvert, but I get so excited when I see certain people that I get...
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
upbeat and they mistake me for an extrovert. And it's like, Tamisha, you're happy all the time. What are you talking about? I'm just like, oh my god, you have no idea. As happy as I am, I cry just as intensely. I feel all the feelings to the greatest extent. And I just couldn't live in that sadness bubble.
Jessica
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
Yeah, but I do want to find myself, I want to be 95 years old and still dancing on the dance floor. You know, I hope that's true. And that's kind of why I've dabbled into ballroom dancing. I was just like, okay, it's still partner dancing and still have different elements of it. It's a community. They do some swing dancing in it. It's a different version of it, but it doesn't have the vernacular flair, but.
Jessica
Yeah. Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
Like maybe this will help me step back into the social realm of swing dancing without feeling guilty, because I shouldn't feel guilty. Like I'm a grown woman, I can make my decisions. Like no one is actually pressuring me. You know, I feel the pressure because I feel obligated in I love to dance so much. Like I think swing dances, when I was swing dancing is probably the happiest I ever felt.
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
Like the moment in the middle of the dance, you just feel like you're flying. It's amazing. Too much, I feel like crying because it does feel that amazing and I miss that. And it's heartbreaking that I hide away from it still because I'm just so scared of falling back into that negative space and I've worked so hard….
Jessica
Hmm. Me too.
Tamisha Anthony
In my current career to be successful and more balanced and try to be happy. But yeah, there's no joy like dancing. And I love illustrating. It's a type of art form that I can work hard at. It's good stress. I can do it as a job. I don't think I could ever do dance as a job again. I think it's… It's just truly my passion, something that as a child, I almost needed to do to survive. Like anytime I didn't feel like I fit in or I was trying to figure out how to like get grants or scholarships or college, anything, any hardship I was going through, like illness in the family, I would dance. I would just like freely dance like throughout my house. Like, with my family there, just dance around them. And I'm just like feeling all the feels and it would heal me. It would make me feel so much better. And after those dances, I always felt like I had a clearer perspective of what I needed to do and how to go about the things I needed to let go and I couldn't control the things I could do. And that always felt amazing. And I mean, I'm not doing that as much now, so it's.
Jessica
Mm.
Tamisha Anthony
I know I need to, but I am still hiding. I realize after talking to you, Jess, yeah.
Jessica
Mm hmm. Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
No, no, yeah. And I'm hoping maybe that's something I need to write down. But things so I can intentionally go about reconnecting to it because I know my soul needs it. Like, yeah, for that, like ultimate piercing joy. Like it's nothing. Nothing is like it. So. Yeah.
Jessica
I hear you on a very deep level because I feel the same exact way. I think for me, I'm like still intertwined in the entertainment industry. So it feels like there are a lot of triggers and trauma that surrounds it. So it's hard to separate it.
Tamisha Anthony
Yes.
Jessica
And for you, do you feel like, and you don't have to share the details, but do you feel like you can identify what is that disconnect and that pain that you feel that triggers you? Or is it kind of just like too much to even be able to identify?
Tamisha Anthony
Some things I can identify and then some things, it's so overwhelming that I just, I avoid it. I like over the past few years, I've come to understand certain things. Mostly like the self image, like those things I know. I'm just like, I'm, I'm no, I'm, how do I say, you know in the dance world, you're supposed to be really thin.
Jessica
Hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
heavier than I was then, you know, and I still struggle with that. Cause I'm just like, oh my God. And I'm not saying this like they're hurting anybody, but I feel like I'm just huge. In fact, and I like, when I look in the mirror, I just see a blob and I'm like. I know I'm not, you know, like people try to talk to me like Tamisha and I'm just like, oh, I know. I know it's like, it's a mental thing that I can't, I don't really like looking at myself.
Jessica
Mm.
Tamisha Anthony
you know, down. I have my image of how I look in my vintage clothes, and sometimes that image is broken when I have to see myself. So that's a lot of that came from performing. And having to stay that thin. I mean, I was like, size zero. And honestly, like when I look back at it, and I mean, my husband said, you were, you're too thin, you were too thin. And I do look at some photos, like when I was just in the middle of it, I was so tiny. And like my body's not really built to be that small. I'm still kind of muscular, and although I'm short, and yeah, I have certain areas that need a little extra fat that I realize. So I know that logically, it's just that I'm still obsessed with it a little bit.
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
And I still get a little obsessed with skin tone, although that's better now because I couldn't book certain gigs because I was too dark and my hair was natural. And that's nothing that, you know, they would say things like, oh, you're not the right kind of pretty for this. Or they need someone that looks more like this or not this. And that was really hard for me. It was really hard because Craig, my husband, who is Caucasian could get booked for the gigs, but I was his partner and I couldn't get booked with him and I would see the person that was booked with them and I was just like, oh my God. You know, there's like, there's nothing I can do about that. Like, but instead of like My goodness, I am... Jess, you should be a therapist. Ha ha ha!
Jessica
I have heard that.
Tamisha Anthony
Oh my goodness!
Jessica
I can't be a therapist because I'm sitting here crying with you. Therapists have to put it on.
Tamisha Anthony
therapists cry with me before and I thought that was beautiful. Oh my goodness. But yeah, in saying I like the way I look more, even though I have those problems with like my curviness now, but then I was just, I just, it was hard to even look at myself at all. Just like everything was wrong. Like I cut my hair and that was a problem once. I was like, I didn't know I wasn't allowed to cut my hair and stuff. And it's just...
Jessica
Okay. Sure.
Tamisha Anthony
I'm glad I have more freedoms now with my body and my expression. And if I can have cake and ice cream that day, something easy as that. Like in that I'm not worried so much about it that I'm, yeah, it's an obsession in a way. And sometimes I worry about that coming back. That's the one thing that I know that is problematic with me in dance and that.
Jessica
Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
it's good for me to step away from. And doing it socially or as a hobby, I think I would be fine, but sometimes I kind of, I kind of freak out about it. I kind of, yeah. But the other aspects I'm not quite sure of, I just, I feel just like, a wave of like being overwhelmed. And I was like, okay, I have to, I have to get out of the environment or the situation or.
Jessica
Hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
the conversation about it. So, still working through some things, try to figure out, combing through some things, yeah.
Jessica
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of that because it's so easy to look at from someone from the outside and think they have it all together or they're perfectly happy with who they are. And you know, you sharing your pain and your experiences doesn't change that someone else has those pain or those experiences, but it makes you feel less alone. And it makes you feel more validated, like, oh yeah, that is really messed up what we experienced. And yeah, that thing that happened to me was not okay. And when you just internalize it, it manifests in your body, it manifests as depression and anxiety. And all of those experiences that you had were so...
Tamisha Anthony
Thank you. Yes, yes.
Jessica
messed up and were not necessary for that job or for that performance experience. It was someone else's limited mindset and messed up mindset over time that then was projected onto you and forced you to need to step away from this. It has nothing to do with you.
Tamisha Anthony
Yes.
Jessica
and your power and your strength and your desire to express and dance freely. And if they could have, if we could have had the right people in power offering you opportunities to really shine, they would have benefited and clearly you would have benefited too. It would have benefited everybody, but because there's such a narrow mindset over what a dancer should be and should look like, and it's changing.
Tamisha Anthony
Yeah. Yes. Yes.
Jessica
but it's still a huge problem and it might be changing, but that doesn't change the fact that all of these years, people have been unnecessarily harmed in ways that we can't even express or identify sometimes.
Tamisha Anthony
Yes...Exactly. And I assume the people that were harming me, they were, again, harmed like that, as well. They were limited. And I also get that in saying that about the people. But yeah, it's, can I say that's why I love Lilla. Because she scooped me up in the artistic world and really showed me that truly just being my little weird self,
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
was the best path and the more that I was myself and kooky and like bright, the more jobs I got, more opportunities I got. And then in these opportunities, I'm truly just being myself. I get to be me. I get to do things that I like to do and share those with other people. And that's so exciting. Whereas I couldn't do that in my dance career. I...
Jessica
Mm.
Tamisha Anthony
I was trying to be something else and shape myself to be somebody else and look different. I was rebelling against myself, honestly. I didn't want that. And it feels so lovely to have a mentor that encourages me to just truly be Tamisha Anthony, just truly be who I am and the world will love you for it. And if they don't, then you have a lot of other people that will love you. Just brush them off and move on. And I've learned that is the truth. Just move forward. There will be haters, but there are gonna be so many people that love you and support you and want you to see you do your best. So, yeah.
Jessica
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Jessica
Have you written a book about your dancing journey?
Tamisha Anthony
I have not.
Jessica
Just saying that..coming back to oneself and finding dance again, it could be a, what's the word for when you do more than one craft? Multidisciplinary, a multidisciplinary project of Tamisha coming home to herself through dancing after a wild ride away from it. Just gonna plant that seed.
Tamisha Anthony
Yeah, that's true. That sounds really, really beautiful. I like, I, when you're saying it, I'm just like, oh, that would be a lot of self healing. And then I could share that healing with other people. I have to be brave enough to do it, you know?
Jessica
And also, you know, it doesn't have to be anything crazy, but I had this thought, like, would you consider going into a dance studio, renting a dance studio just for you and Craig and dancing for fun, just the two of you? No recording, no mirror, just the feeling of it.
Tamisha Anthony
Ooh, oh that's a great idea. Yeah. I've never thought of that and I love that idea. That would be wonderful. Cause I know he doesn't dance as much anymore either. I feel somewhat responsible for that because he got upset with all the experiences that I had in the swing dance world. But yeah, that would be magical. Cause I mean, we still dance in our living room. We have like this little space that during the day is the cat zone.
Jessica
Mm.
Tamisha Anthony
That’s where she runs around in circles. When in the evening we save that patch for us like just dancing sometimes and it would be nice to have like a studio space just to really go at it and be free and turn the music up loud and like have that little sparks of joy because you know in the house you still run into a chair or a wall. If you go too far beyond.
Jessica
Right. And it's also just taking a little step into re-entering that space that can be really, I don't want to use a word that you don't identify with, but that has a lot of baggage, like a studio space can have a lot of baggage. And you're stepping back into it on your own terms with the safety of your partner.
Tamisha Anthony
Yeah. It does. Yeah. I'm going to go and get some water. Yes!
Jessica
and whatever you want to do and nothing that you don't want to do.
Tamisha Anthony
Yeah, I really like that idea. You're wild. Is this a therapy session? Are you Lilla 2.0? Oh my God.
Jessica
Ha ha!
Tamisha Anthony
I wasn't even ready!
Jessica
I’m like we're just gonna chat.
Tamisha Anthony
I can't believe all this insight and stuff. I was like, oh, those are great ideas. I love them.
Jessica
but also super hypocritical because I can say the same thing for myself and I haven't stepped back into a studio. So it's easier to say these things to somebody else than to do them, right?
Tamisha Anthony
I get that, but I mean, how long has it been for you? I feel like it's probably been longer for me than for you.
Jessica
Mm-hmm. I probably haven't been like, I've taken a couple of classes over the past few years, but probably since I was on tour and having to be in a studio or on stage every day, which was like four years ago. But yeah. Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
Mm. Yeah. Okay. I mean, mine is longer. Mine is like six or seven years. So like, you're like half the time, you know? I think I was just figuring out, oh, this is the career I'm going into when I was three or four years out, really understanding what I wanted to do. Because I was lost for several years, to be honest. I had a random part-time job, which I loved working with my boss, he was awesome. But I'm just like, this doesn't connect to me in any kind of way at all. I'm just doing it for the paycheck, which I'm not used to doing. I'm usually passionate about everything that I do
Jessica
Mm-hmm. Right.
Tamisha Anthony
much energy. So, but that was good because I could, I had time to think. I had time to think about what I want to do, what was important to me. And the next time that I, you know, took a step in the direction I wanted to, I could really just run, which I did, sprint towards it. And yeah, I must have needed it. It must be good. So give yourself time. You need time. It hasn't been that long. Yeah.
Jessica
Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's true. I also want to say…you and everybody deserves to get to the root of what you are still struggling with. And I'm saying this to myself too, I'm saying this to anybody who's struggling with any kind of mental health situation because I think when your mental health issues are so,
Tamisha Anthony
Mm. Yeah.
Jessica
interconnected to a certain extent with dance or with the craft or with something like that, we think that when we step away from that, it's going to magically make these issues dissolve. And, and it might, it might to a certain extent, right? Like you eliminated the extra daily stress of the gig work and the performances. So you removed yourself from these mentally unsafe
Tamisha Anthony
So true!
Jessica
situations and that is enormous. However, it doesn't mean that you still have, you deserve to work through those things that are still, and me too, and everyone, I'm not just saying like, go to therapy, you know? Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
Yeah. Yes, yes. No, no, no. Plural you. No. I mean, I seriously, I did quit everything thinking that was going to heal everything. And I was like, oh, I still feel awful. And I, that's when I got a therapist. I was just like, oh, this is beyond I just quitting and stepping away from seeing certain people and triggers and things like that. I really need to start working through it.
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
And I mean, I still have the therapist. I love my therapist, you know? Yeah. But it, yeah, it was really hard then to, I guess, talk about the things that I experienced in detail and know that it was okay to say like, oh, this felt awful. And have someone to say back to you like, no, that was awful, you know? Because people in the dance world around me were like, you're fine.
Jessica
Yeah, me too. That's awful. Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
this is normal. You know, they wouldn't say this is normal, but they would act like I was making a big deal out of something so small that was reacting to something that I should just get over. And I was holding on to things when I should just focus on all the opportunities I had and I just couldn't. So it was, yeah, it was very validating. I have someone be like, Oh my God, you went through that and that's terrible. And of course you feel this way.
Jessica
Hmm... Mm-hmm. Hmm
Tamisha Anthony
that is natural and I needed that validation. And not someone from like a family member to I needed someone that was from on the outskirts that could tell me that like, oh, I see your pain and I see what you go through. And yeah, this is not normal for you to be able to handle. Yeah.
Jessica
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Our depression and anxiety and anything we might be dealing with, it can be connected to so many things from our past that we've pushed down or that we aren't addressing in like right now. And so that's just it's not to say that we need to immediately dive into all of our past traumas and focus on that our entire lives and that's no, it's just to say, be gentle with yourself and kind to yourself because…
Tamisha Anthony
Yeah. Yes. Yes.
Jessica
when you're struggling with those things, and I have struggled immensely with those things, especially this year. And in the moment, it's like, what is wrong with me? Why can't I shake this? But there are so many layers. It's your current circumstances and it's your entire past.
Tamisha Anthony
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. There it is. It is, it is. Yeah, and I'm with you. I would encourage just like jumping into childhood immediately. It's good to start with the things that are fresher, they're newer. Cause when I started therapy, I felt like, oh my God, okay. Whenever I was five, like I thought it had to be like a big like that, but like there, no, you can talk about what's happening yesterday. You can talk about what happened over this past week, you know, and that's what I started with, like my day to day. And then I kind of started going into talking about my dance experiences.
Jessica
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
and then it build off of that. So because you're establishing trust with your therapists anyway and you want them to feel like they understand you and connect to you and sometimes deep diving straight into childhood is just not the right direction to go. I feel like yeah.
Jessica
Mm-hmm. Right, yeah. How has your experience as a dancer, the pros and cons, the beautiful parts and the painful parts, how has that connected with you as an illustrator now?
Tamisha Anthony
Well, one great thing is that I keep getting children's book deals for things about movement, which in dance, which I'm just like, the publishers see my soul. Just like, yeah, even if they, I don't know if they all know that I've danced in the past or not, but like my illustration work, I love drawing kids in motion and like in joyfully doing something. So
Jessica
Mm. Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
And I've been really happy to get some musical books and dance related books to be able to make, if I'm not dancing, I'm making my little characters dance and it, it makes me really happy to do that. You know, I can make them do anything. Also positive, I've kept, I think swing dance has very much influenced my style as well. My dressing style. So I continue to, you know, go to vintage shops, you know, every other day or so and feed off of like the past styles and clothes to inspire my look, even if I'm buying something from the present day, but I do try to like thrift in by vintage clothing. And so I think that's a beautiful thing that came out of me dancing with swing dancing. I'm trying to think like I, I still love watching swing dancing on YouTube. They honestly still keep up with people that are performing. I still get so excited when I see a move that is just like boss. I'm just like, oh my God, did you see? I'll bring Craig in. I'm like, did you see that? Did you see what she did? Oh my God. I still have those moments and it gets me so psyched. So I mean, in those moments, I know that I still want it and I still have time to play again.
Jessica
Hehehe Hmm
Tamisha Anthony
but really keep it as play. I think I need to be able to trust myself to keep it as play and not start making it professional in any kind of way. Like, I'll go to things like with my illustration that it's very accepting of me and who I am and what I want and how I look, not to go towards anything else.
Jessica
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
Yeah, and I mean, I met my husband from swing dancing. So that's like an amazing present. If I hadn't gone to that audition, I would never have met him. And he's like my best buddy. So we're really close friends. We he loves music and dance and
Jessica
Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
vintage shopping and dressing up and like all the, we're like little kids together. We like playing dress up and going out and we love it. So yeah, even with all the trials I went through, I wouldn't trade anything like when not meeting my Craigie.
Jessica
That's so sweet.
Tamisha Anthony
Like he's truly my soulmate. He really understands me and supports me and supported this whole transition. You wake up one morning, you're like, I'm quitting everything. And if we weren't married then either, and I had no plan, I didn't have a job yet. And he's like, okay, do it. If that's what you need to do, do it. And I did. And with everything I've done, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna start doing children's books and I'm going for it.
Jessica
Hmm.Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
always supported me in everything I've done. And that support has really encouraged me to like reach my dreams. And I love that, like him believing that, okay, you're doing something really extreme, but I trust you. I trust your judgment. And I know you're gonna pull yourself out of it. And that has been amazing. Yeah.
Jessica
That's incredible. Are there any particular illustration jobs that you've had that were, are there any illustration jobs you've had that are particularly healing or joyful or sparkly? Like anything that really just lit you up to your core? I'm sure many, but maybe you could talk about one.
Tamisha Anthony
Yeah, one is a book that's coming out in January. It's just been available for pre-order. It's called On Our Way What a Day. It's about a group of children. There's like six siblings that are on their way to their grandmother's, and they find these different items along the way. Some things are just like I was talking about a stick. That's why it's like, but like different items that makes music. And yeah, I wonder where they're dancing and they're musical and they're connecting with each other and having just a beautiful, magical, exploratory day. And I had the most fun with that one. I stuck my brother in that book. He's my older brother, but I made him into a four-year-old.
Jessica
Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
which makes me laugh so hard because I have him doing such crazy things. And he was such a good child. Like he was like the perfect child. He never got in trouble. So I have him doing such bad things in the book and I'm getting a kick out of it. And I dedicated to book to him. So I'm so excited for him to see it. I've showed his daughter who was, who's seven, who's like, Oh my God, daddy is so silly. And I'm just like,
Jessica
Oh, that's so sweet. Hehehe
Tamisha Anthony
This is all I need. She keeps telling me, why did you do that daddy? Why did you do that? He's like, do what? Why are you being so silly in the book? So I love teasing my brother and like I love incorporating people that I know and love into the book and making them move around and dance and be joyful essentially, making them be joyful and kind of like capturing them. So like.
Jessica
That's so cute.
Tamisha Anthony
you know, even whenever I'm gone, hopefully they'll still be around in the books. That's what makes me really excited.
Jessica
Can you please finish this sentence? I am proud of myself because...
Tamisha Anthony
I am proud of myself because I keep trying. I feel like, I feel like anybody's life is easy, but I've been thrown some tough blows and I could have settled. I could have stopped dreaming. I could have like not made new dreams as well, but I continued to say like, this is an awful thing that happened, but what am I dreaming about now? And then how am I gonna make it happen? And then have succeeded in doing that. Like I'm, like I just recently signed, oh, I'm about to sign my first author and illustrated book. And like, that was one of my biggest goals. Like I wanna write and illustrate. Thank you. And you know, me six years ago, you know, I felt like I was in a rut.
Jessica
Oh my gosh, congratulations.
Tamisha Anthony
in the bed, couldn't get up, and I never saw this for myself. You know, but I found a new dream. You always have time to find a new dream. Always, always, always. And even if this went away, I think about that. I could find a new dream. I could keep dreaming, and I could keep going towards a goal, and I could still be so passionate about it, because there's so many things that I'm passionate about. It's not just one thing. And yeah, so I'm happy that I continue to try. I just, I never give up.
Jessica
Mm. What advice would you give to somebody who was at that point where they are in the rut and they are stuck in their bed?
Tamisha Anthony
First of all, give yourself time to just be. You know, I tried to, I think I pushed myself too soon, a little after, because I was like, okay, I'm not doing this anymore, then I have to be amazing, and like, in this, and I gotta show it on social media, then I'm doing great, da da, da da. And then I just ended up like, kind of sinking more, because I didn't have my...
Jessica
Mm.
Tamisha Anthony
You know, I didn't have my feet settled yet. I wasn't really balanced. I really didn't know where I was going or what I really wanted to do. So give yourself time to think, but just don't think to yourself too much. Make sure you're talking to people that you trust, whether that's a therapist or a friend or family members, so that you can work through your ideas and see what direction you want to go. But yeah, give yourself time and like talk it and plan it out. I know planning is not good for everyone, but I do really love writing something down and claiming some overarching theme for like a month or for the year. And it gives me like, when I start tracking off, like going off the track, then I'm just like, what is the theme? What is the focus? And then I can go back to like redirecting myself and all my choices towards that. It helps me a lot. Cause yeah.
Jessica
Hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
I let it do everything. I'm a person who's just like, oh my God, look at this. Oh, oh, pretty fun. Da da da. So it helps me to stay focused and can also say don't try to do too many things at once. Actually, whenever I was, I had someone tell me this and it's wild because, well, that doesn't matter.
Jessica
Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
But yeah, it was really good advice from someone that I guess I don't really trust. Like, it's not a friend of mine, but the advice is really, really good. They told me, like, you can't do too many artistic pursuits at once. And honestly, when I first started dancing, I was still, I think I was still trying to do stationary and greeting cards and wholesale and things like that. And there was a third element I was trying to do. I was trying to do three things.
Jessica
Hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
all at the same time and they were all at the beginning. And I struggled so much with getting any of them really to pick up like I wanted it to. So whenever I kind of quit everything and I kind of just like focused on illustration. It was before the pandemic, it's pretty much all I did. And then once the pandemic hit, I was like, okay, got furloughed for a little for my job.
Jessica
Mmm.
Jessica
Mm-hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
I illustrated all day, all day long. I'm just like, okay, if this is what you want, you're stuck at home, you can't go anywhere, then you better draw and you better draw and get better. I started taking Lilla's classes and like trying to improve myself. Everything I did was illustration. And so I benefited from growing in it. I saw the growth more quickly than I thought it would. I mean, I did go to school for...
Jessica
Hmm.
Tamisha Anthony
computer art and animation. It's not like, oh, I decided to pick up a pencil and draw for the first time at that point. But I didn't have a dedication to understanding the craft and the industry behind it and what I needed my portfolio to look like and the variety of characters I need to have to be able to be picked up by a publisher. So that focus really, really helped me.
Jessica
Right.
Tamisha Anthony
I think it was like shock to most of my family and friends because I went from, you know, they were like, why did you quit dance? Oh, you look so happy. Oh, you're so amazing. Y'all are so beautiful. Da da da. And to, they were thinking like, oh, what is she gonna do now? You know, that was her thing. She can't do another thing because she was already doing a thing. To doing another thing, they're like, oh, I had no idea that you had that in you. And I'm like, yes, I do.
Jessica
Thanks for watching!
Tamisha Anthony
because I went in hard. I was just like, you know, there can be another thing. You know, our talents are endless if we focus inward and find them. They really, really are. So yeah, and I was so bad at illustrating at first. Oh my God. They were so, oh, I look at my work, they're hideous. Oh my God. They were so, they really were. And even though they were bad, I didn't let that stop me. I kept trying to get better. Again, now I'm illustrating a ride in my own book. So I think there's power in that. Just like, even if you're doing poorly at something and it was something you really wanna do and you're passionate and you're willing to give it a lot of time, like go for it, go for it. It doesn't matter. Like I was in my mid thirties. It doesn't matter to start over. You know, I felt like a failure, but I was like, no, I can do this. I can do this other thing and I will fight tooth and nail to do it. Like I will absolutely achieve what I want to in this. So yeah, keep fighting.
Jessica
And you are. And also, you know, sometimes it feels like we're starting over if you're picking up what feels like a completely different craft, but also, like we said before, your dancing has come into everything that you do now with the movement and they have whether, like you said, whether people know it or not, they're giving you these opportunities to illustrate movement. So it's not...
Tamisha Anthony
Thank you, Jess. Yeah. Mm. It has...Yes, yes, yes.
Jessica
starting over entirely, but that I have to tell myself that that's why I'm saying it out loud.
Tamisha Anthony
That's true. Yeah, yes. Yes. No, I think that's great. That's great to because that is important to know it is I got picked up for this like gig for the library. It's like a little residency designer summer fun. And I know the women there don't know anything about me. And they're like, you're so good at movement. You know, it's like we didn't realize and I'm just like, people that are not artistic, who are not dancers who are not like, will say that to me, that they see that in my art even whenever I didn't. So obviously like dance is still coursing through me. It's still like a love of mine. I will get back to connecting to it more strongly in the future. I know I will because yeah, I do love it so much. But yeah, I'm happy for getting through that time in finding success.
Jessica
Yeah. Yes, you will.
Tamisha Anthony
in my own right. So, yeah.
Jessica
Mm-hmm. So my final question is then you said you found success. I rarely hear people say that. What does success mean to you?
Tamisha Anthony
Oh, I mean, I am very career oriented and I know that's not what it should be, but I think whenever I first built in New York as like early 20s. My goal was to, my goal was to publish my, and write my first book by the time I was 25, which was wild. I don't know why I thought that, but that was like one of my main goals. I wanted to work as an artist full-time. I wanted to create things from my imagination. I just wanted to tell stories. I love telling stories with dance, and I love telling stories with my illustration and a project is a little, it's like on a difficult side or I'm doing something that I'm not as good at, that I'm still, I'm like, I'm doing what I want to do. I'm doing what I dream that I would be doing.
I get to go and see beautiful art forms. I still love going to the ballet or seeing other art forms. I still love going to the opera. I get to do this with my best friend, who's my husband, who likes doing random picnics with me and dressing up in 1940s gear to go to an opera or go to a movie that's black and white and dressing like the characters just because, you know, I find all those things to be so enjoyable and so much fun. I'm kind of living how the little girl, Tamisha, wanted to live. Just drawing and making and playing dress up, you know? And there's a lot of hard times in that. I struggle a lot, but still, like, at the core of it is what I wanted. It's my little joy pocket. It was my dream, and I'm so happy to be doing that. So I feel very blessed. So so blessed.
Jessica
Mmm.
Tamisha Anthony
And even if it doesn't last forever, because nothing lasts forever, I'm like, I'll always look back and like, I got to be, you know, my six year old dream, you know, where I just, I go to coffee shops and I draw pictures and I sip my chai. And you know, after that, I go home and take a nap like a child. And then I get up and I go to a ballroom dance class or I dance with my husband at home. Or like, it's just, I get to experience lots of little pockets of joy and I try to soak up all of it every moment that I can. So yeah.
Jessica
That is so beautiful. Well, thank you so much for everything that you have so beautifully and courageously shared with us because it's not easy to be open and be vulnerable. And you demonstrated that so incredibly today. And I'm so appreciative. I did not know where this conversation was going to go. And it really has.
Tamisha Anthony
Yeah.
Jessica
impacted me and I'm sure it will impact anybody listening and… oh good
Tamisha Anthony
This impacted me too, Jess, so much. I don't know what you want to do with your life, but if you want to think about therapy, I think it's really great because I don't know, your little face and your little heart just pulls so much out of me. And I'm like, wow, I'm understanding elements of myself that I didn't before this conversation, which is so amazing. I feel like I should pay you.
Jessica
Thank you.
Tamisha Anthony
It's like, where's the copay?
Jessica
Ha! Well, that is so sweet to hear. Thank you so much. And this is only the beginning of our friendship too, which makes me so happy.
Tamisha Anthony
Okay. Ha ha ha.
Tamisha Anthony
Yes, I am too. I can't wait to see you in person. You're just, yeah, you're just such a light. You're so lovely, Jess. Yeah. Oh, yes! I would love that. I would really, really love that.
Jessica
Same to you. And we can go vintage shopping. You can teach me swing, how to swing dance. I would love that. I've never done anything like that in my life. Yeah.
Tamisha Anthony
Oh my god, yes! You feel it feel like you're flying. It's so freeing. Yes.
Jessica
Yeah, that would be so nice. Okay, so we have lots of plans for our future together. Yes. Okay. Well, thank you so much. I absolutely adore you. I hope you have a beautiful rest of your day and we will definitely talk soon.
Tamisha Anthony
Hey, thank you so much, Jess. Thank you. Bye.
Jessica
Bye.