Season 2 Finale: Celebrating Where and Who We Are
Show Notes
TW: Sexual assault
In the final episode of Season 2, Honza Pelichovský interviews Jess to follow up on last week's solo episode.
Jess shares:
The three changes she believes dance programs can make to improve the lives and careers of their dancers
Advice and loving words that she would tell my younger self
Whether or not she would take back her traumatic experience because of how it’s shaped her
How she feels about publicly sharing her story and the healing that it has offered
Her favorite parts of making this podcast (and more about her endless gratitude…)
Transcript
Jessica Altchiler
Okay, hello and welcome to the story project. I am your regular host, Jessica Altchiler, but today we actually have a guest host and that is Honza Pelikovsky, who, if you remember, opened up our season two with two back to back episodes. So if you haven't listened to that, please do. He is vulnerable. He is honest. He is blunt. He is beautiful. And so to close our season two, I wanted to do something a little bit different. And I had been getting a lot of questions about my own story. And that is a challenging thing for me to do on my own. And last week, I attempted to do it a little bit. I dug into some things and there's certainly a lot more to be talked about.
And Honza, as I mentioned in his episodes, he has been the absolute most dedicated fan of this podcast in that every single episode, he leaves me a three minute minimum voice memo, giving me all of the details, everything that he thought. And he has been such a trusted, valuable person that I can constantly bounce ideas off of, and he's been supporting me for 10 years, over 10 years now since we were in college. And that's evolved a lot since then. So we thought that this could be a very interesting and different way to close the season up with him interviewing me a little bit. And because he knows this podcast so well, he knows me so well, he's listened to everything. What he wants to do is kind of fill in any missing pieces a little bit. Parts of the story that maybe aren't so clear, that I have maybe touched upon, but he wants to ask more questions about, I don't know exactly what he's going to ask. And we're kind of, we're going with the theme of the podcast, which is again, just showing up and seeing where we are in this moment. And I'm so grateful for him. And with all of that said, I'm going to metaphorically pass the Mike over to my dear friend, Hansa.
Honza
Hello everyone and welcome to my podcast just kidding This is what I've been waiting for this is was my master plan to take it over eventually no, no, no I feel like I've been dropping hands. I was like, okay, so To officially started. Hi everyone who's listening. I think this makes perfect sense because speaking of my long reaction Messages sending to you. I feel like I always
Jessica Altchiler
That's what you've been waiting for.
Honza
say whenever there's an episode in which you sort of delve into your own story or when you talk for a longer period of time and when you when you sort of think about a theme and talk about it i always say that was my favorite part one because your voice i always keep saying is so perfect for recording and the audio medium that it always feels so correct when i'm hearing it it's like this is a professional person recording a podcast so i just feel like it's a wonderful thing to have you on the other side of the mic, you know, metaphorically speaking, how does it feel to be the interviewee and not the interviewer for a second?
Jessica Altchiler
It's funny because there is part of me that feels relieved. Like, I wish I didn't really realize until this very moment. So I'm like, I, there's no prep. There's no anything. I just sit here and I answer questions. That's kind of nice. And then the flip side of that is I'm not in control right now, except of course I am because I edit it. And if you say something I don't want to say, I have the power to be like, I'm not going to say it as everybody does on the show, as we've talked about. But that's how I feel. I'm excited. I'm excited that we're doing things a little bit differently.
Honza
So dear listeners, if this episode ends up being 15 minutes, you know that we cut most of it. Or you'll know why. Okay, so I'm gonna delve right into it. And I have some loose questions, but I feel like we can just take it as it comes. I was really taken, and by your last episode, I listened to it before you released it, because I know you had some hesitation about putting it out there. And I just want to thank you for doing it. I think it was very brave, especially knowing that...
Jessica Altchiler
HAHA
Honza
It was just you talking to yourself and knowing that this was going to be heard by, you know, two people, 10 people, but potentially since it lives on the internet by a lot of people and you didn't hold back. You definitely mentioned names. You went deep into sort of both the college experience, the assault that I think is a part of it. And then sort of the wonderful thing that I guess came out of it through several steps, which is the podcast. Is there something listening to yourself from last week from your story or whatever you decided to talk about that you feel like you had expanded upon or talked more about or something that you feel like is missing in that big picture of someone, let's say someone who isn't like me, who knows your journey kind of personally, but someone who's just listening to this as if, you know, as an acquaintance or someone who might not even know you.
Jessica Altchiler
That's a great question. So I sent the podcast beforehand to you and to my two sisters and they both very strongly felt like there were, it was brave and beautiful in its own way and that there were missing pieces and it didn't really tell the whole story. And ultimately I decided to post it regardless because I wasn't ready to completely flesh out the entire story. And I didn't wanna feel the responsibility of not missing certain points. I kind of just needed to have the practice of speaking about.
Honza
Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
my story when it was just me and not again through these other conversations where I kind of dive in and trickle things in some episodes more than others. And I think one point that my sisters pointed out to me was that it wasn't just the assault that led to the creation of the podcast. And I think that's...
Honza
course.
Jessica Altchiler
one, I think that was one extreme pillar of it, but there were all these other issues going on. There were eating issues, body image issues, there were other things going on in the program. That was just the fact that we were lacking certain training and certain support and things like that. And that it just generally wasn't being called out. And that's, pretty much what I can remember. Because sometimes I also do episodes and then someone will be like, my gosh, I love when that person said this thing. And I'm like, I have no memory of this. Because either I recorded it, yeah, I recorded it and edited it all that time ago or for whatever reason. I mean, these are really dense episodes with tons of heart and emotion being poured out constantly.
Honza
This was five months ago.
Jessica Altchiler
And so it's not that, it's not important. So I don't remember. It's just that there's so much of it. So in any given moment, I might not remember everything. Like I don't really remember everything that I talked about last week.
Honza
Yeah, absolutely. That's sort of a good segue to my next question. When you find yourself either talking or interviewing someone, what is the most valuable part of it? Is it the right now we're talking in real time? This is the, as you said, for some people, it sounds like or feels like therapy. Is it the exchange in real time when you're actually talking or is it when you're then editing and you're like sitting with it, maybe taking down some notes, or is it after when you're publishing it and then you're getting reactions from other people? Like what is the most intense part or the most enjoyable part for you of the process?
Jessica Altchiler
I think that the moment that I feel the best and the most fulfilled and euphoric is the second I stopped the recording. That is the best moment because I know we made something beautiful and it just lives in the space between the two of us. So that to me is the best moment. Being in the moment with somebody in conversation is also the best because that's what it's all about and that's what it's for. And I love talking to people. I love, I've always loved being one -on -one with people. I love digging and trying to get to the root of something that somebody is going through. I love trying to help people get to the other side of something. I love being able to maybe point out something from the outside that you can't see from the inside. And that always happens in the reverse as well. People are constantly pointing things out to me that I wouldn't have noticed otherwise. And every single episode has brought some kind of enlightenment to my own life. And that's also where to bring it back to the last component, the editing, that's where that is really special because I'll be listening and I'll pause it and I'll go, Ooh, that was good. Or, wow, that is so profound. Or, and sometimes it's me saying something too. And most of the time it's, it's the time of someone else. And that is where the connection with…
Honza
Yeah, most of the times. No, no, no, no, no. Take the compliment.
Jessica Altchiler
The audience comes into play. So there are all of these different stages. Like I love the conversations. I love the fact that I hit stop and I know we made something incredible, whether it just lasts between the two of us or a bunch of people hear it, it exists and it was special in that moment and we'll always have it. And then the editing, it's amazing to actually be in the act of making something. With this editing,
Honza
Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
I'm in control. I keep coming back to that. I'm in control. And then the releasing is, how do I put this? The releasing is the hardest part because I'm like, my gosh, did I keep something in there that I should have taken out? Or did I cut something because it was to this or to that and I should have kept it in and I have really had to let go of wondering what people's responses are going to be because most of the time you just don't know. And you might never know what people are going to say.
Honza
And that's and the control is the hardest part because once it's not just about you and you put something out there the control is partial you can only stick it down right like you have the control of whether it keeps living somewhere or not but you can control people's response to anything right or what they find interesting or triggering or not or yeah.
Jessica Altchiler
Yes. Yeah.
Jessica Altchiler
And I think for me, that's why I love your voice memo so much because I'm doing this because I was so strongly pulled to for so many years. I'm doing this for me because it's something that is in my heart. And I love these conversations that I've learned that I love making a podcast. I do it for my guests who, as I've said, some of them say it feels like therapy or that they had some kind of profound involvement or that it just felt good to be asked questions about their lives and their stories. And I do it for my audience members, of course, because that's the change. That's where the change comes in. That's where I'm trying to make people feel less alone, more connected, more understood, all of that. So I know how my guests feel in real time, either in the moment or afterwards when we talk about it when I hit stop. And the audience, I just don't know most of the time.
Honza
Mm -hmm.
Honza
Yeah. What is interesting for me is how I remember what we felt like when we finished our episode. I remember pressing stop, or you pressing stop, and we already knew it was too long for it to be just one episode. And I was so exhausted for the rest of the day. I think it was a Monday, sort of morning, and I finished and I was like, I need a nap. Or maybe I need this to be. It was such a, I guess such a cathartic release in a way, and not that we talked about something that I kept a secret that I needed to get off my chest, but the way we talked about it made me so tired at the end, in the best way. It just felt like we really shared something, we really put something out there, and then it felt like labor, it felt like a three hour rehearsal. I'm done with it.
Jessica Altchiler
Mm -hmm. Yes. Yes. It's an incredible way to put it. It is labor. I think that's something that I learned that I wasn't expecting. I was doing sometimes two episodes in a day and I learned that is way too much, With our episode…And it was so long. And yeah, it's not like you have to say something for the first time and release some crazy thing off your chest for that to be catharsis. Catharsis can come from talking about something you've talked about 1 million times, but it just is different or in a different context, or you feel a different way about it today than you felt the other times. There's so many different ways that you can feel that release and that relief. Yeah, it's definitely more exhausting emotionally and physically. I think physically is what I did not expect at all, but I am truly exhausted after the episodes. And then when I'm editing a particularly vulnerable episode, whether it's from the guest or especially if it's for myself, it's...
Honza
than you would think.
Jessica Altchiler
also really exhausting. And the edit takes a really long time, usually multiple days. So there's a lot of heart and soul that goes into everything that we're doing here.
Honza
Yeah. All right, let's pivot in this segment we're calling, we're calling this car news. That's right. Okay, so as you know, between when we recorded and now it's been maybe four or five months, two interesting pieces of news just hit us in terms of where we come from as in Marymount, right? We just found out that Marymount is being assumed by Northeastern University based in Boston.
Jessica Altchiler
Yes. Yes.
Honza
And not only is it going to be sort of a part of the campus, it's also losing its name. So what I'm not a big social media person, so I've only looked at a few comments. I feel like the responses were mostly negative. Not sure if we have enough information and enough of a timeline to understand what it's actually going to look like. But I just wanted to throw it out there. What as a as a Marymount grad, what do you feel like? What does it make you feel like? What do you think this is about? And I'm gonna tag team a second question on it a week later, maybe even less, we found out that UArts, a big liberal arts college in Philly, just announced closing and it's closed at this point. And for me, it was a school that I auditioned for, I considered going and then I chose Marymount. So what do you make of this?
Jessica Altchiler
Whew, I celebrated.
Honza
You're like, burn it to the ground.
Jessica Altchiler
And let's be clear, people losing jobs or losing their degrees, I don't know what any of this entails. So I joke when I say that because I really don't know what it means for people. When I say I celebrate, I mean that I hope that in the...change of name and the change of the program and whatever it is that the positive changes we've been hoping for will happen. Do I feel super hopeful about that? Not exactly, but I think that a big shake up is usually an opportunity for profound change. And like you're saying, I really don't know a lot or anything about what's really happening. I just saw
Honza
leadership.
Jessica Altchiler
the news and it happened to be the day that I was teaching my first in -person yoga class a couple of weeks ago.
Honza
that I missed because we keep missing each other in the city.
Jessica Altchiler
I know. We do keep missing each other. It's been a really long time.
Honza
and just chasing each other across the continent or the world. Sidebar, people. Just where are you? Where are you recording this? Just let us know.
Jessica Altchiler
I know, truly. I'm in Madrid right now.
Honza
No biggie.
Jessica Altchiler
No, biggie, I'm in Madrid and it's lovely here, I will say. But again, missing you in Europe too. We're just constantly ships passing in the night. But I, yeah, I really don't know enough to totally speak to that. But I do think that energetically and spiritually to me, it feels like some kind of possibility for change. And for that, I feel, yeah, I feel.
Honza
Mm -hmm. shakeup.
Jessica Altchiler
I'll just leave it at that I guess.
Honza
I like that. I like that. That's a good segue into my other sort of question that I was going to put out there. It's sort of more open -ended. If let's say, let's just talk college programs in general. And I know they've changed a lot. And I feel like nowadays, whatever we're doing right now being case in point, when we were sort of prepping to get into colleges, social media was sort of in its infancy, definitely the oversharing of everyone's opinion and everyone having a platform. So I don't remember ever researching colleges that I was considering.
from the student's perspective. There wasn't a TikTok or Instagram live that I could go to, to hear someone talk about their experience. It was everything that was put out from the outside. How does the college look? How does the college want itself to be perceived? What's the success rate? What are the alumni doing in the industry? It was all very from the outside looking in and you had to say yes and eventually give them money and start studying to actually realize what it's like.
Do you feel that maybe the fact that your podcast exists, people can literally follow a bunch of students from UArts and see what their day -to -day is like, what their frustrations are, like how the program actually runs itself, how many opportunities they have in terms of performing. Is it worth to spend this amount of money? Do you think this sort of transparency nowadays has something to do with people maybe choosing not to spend thousands of dollars and get themselves in debt to go into a college program for dance?
Jessica Altchiler
I suppose that also circles back to what we were talking about at the beginning with my why for this podcast, because originally I had the thought of, and I still want to, but having a database where everything is super clear. What college, what professor, what studio, this, this, this, this, all on a website for you to go and look and see what people are saying about it. But I do think that hearing people openly talk is super useful for this next generation. I think that also with social media, you're seeing… The realities of what being a professional actually means and tons of people don't go to college for dance. And I'm so not against going to college for dance. It's not that at all. It's just about what's right for you, what program's right for you and how are these programs evolving to best support you and to keep being aware of what's actually happening in the world around you.
So if you're going to go into school, come out with a ton of debt and no real connections to what you want to be working on or what actually is offering jobs, then that's a problem. If you have a program that's really connecting you to what's happening in the dance world now, in the musical theater world now, then that's fantastic. And it's definitely a worthwhile endeavor. It's just to say that it's not, we thought we had to, I think. Like we thought we, in order to be a professional, there were certain things we had to do. And I think that with the evolution of people talking more about their stories and sharing more of their experiences, we're all learning that that was all made up.
Honza
in a way, yeah.
Jessica Altchiler
that there are certain bonuses and benefits and beautiful things that can come from the trajectory that we chose, but it's not objectively the right decision. It's an opinion, it's one path. So for me, wasn't the right one. For some people, you can listen back on the episodes and they had much better experiences at.
Honza
Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
the school like Austin Sora's episode. She talks about that. Yeah.
Honza
Yeah, or I did. Even you and I, I always think of us as being polar opposites in terms of what we brought with us. Yeah.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah, exactly. So yeah, I'll end it there.
Honza
All right. Piggy bagging off of that. Let's say we're still working with a dance program college scenario. What do you think is the best way nowadays in 2024 to balance this idea of getting someone an intense dance education and knowing what that means, especially if it's a bigger department that isn't just focusing on, let's say 12 and 12 people like Juiliard. And the balance with looking at the person as a human, as an artist, as emphasizing self care and rest, like where do those two meet? So the person still gets what they're hoping to get from the program while still, you know, not being run to the ground and not wanting to quit after a four year program. What are the tools? What do we need to tell people who run programs? What do we need to emphasize?
Jessica Altchiler
So there are a couple of layers to that. One of them is that this dance program is still part of a larger college, right? And there are expectations of the program. You know, I don't believe that dancers need to show up all day, every day with one day off in a semester. I think that's a recipe for disaster. However, I do understand that there are certain obligations…
Honza
Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
that is expected of a program within a larger institution. With that said, I think that perhaps there could have been ways that the program could fight for the students a little bit more in that regard. So if you can't get into class, maybe there's something else you could do. Maybe now it's different also with post -COVID world with video, yeah, that's what I'm saying, with video chats.
Honza
Zoom, yeah. With Skype.
Jessica Altchiler
with the zoom. So I don't know that that's not different, but for us, it was, you have one, day that you're allowed to miss per semester and we danced, you know, five days a week, if not also on the weekends for shows and everything. And, you know, waking up, getting there at eight 30 every morning, all of that stuff. So that…
Honza
Plus shows. Yep. Yep.
Jessica Altchiler
was really hard emotionally and physically. And I think that if you can find a way to work harder within whatever is expected from the institution to find a way to really put the dancers' wellbeing first, that would be one, maybe the first line of defense is saying, okay, this is what we're working with. How much can we fight for them? And then after we can't fight anymore, what can we actually do to best support them?
Honza
Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
Maybe that means that you have more opportunities for a yoga class to bring back our infamous story together. But having maybe one day a week instead of the ballet, it's yoga. Like we had our freshman semester. So that's a way that maybe they can work within the system, within the rules. And then.
Honza
Yeah. Yeah. Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
The next layer would be what classes are we really forcing and which ones can be optional and what's really going to benefit them as artists, what's going to benefit them as aspiring professional dancers, what's going to benefit their growth individually as they develop…
Honza
Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
and what's going to really benefit them as they go into the quote unquote real world. And so we had tons of classes that were wonderful and that I wouldn't trade. And we had tons that were simply a waste of time, honestly, and money and contributed to injuries and exhaustion and maybe some of those
Honza
real world. Absolutely. And money, yeah, unfortunately and exhaustion.
Jessica Altchiler
environments were extremely emotionally toxic and physically brutal. So going at it from that class level, what are you actually offering? What am I showing up for every day? And the last level to me would be the teacher's approach. If I'm going into a ballet class, because again,
Honza
Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
I don't know what it's like exactly right now, but for us it was ballet, ballet, ballet, ballet, and then classical modern, classical modern, classical modern, very structured, very again, quote unquote, technical. And as we talk about on this podcast too, that's one kind of technique. It is not the universal technique. And that is not the right training for everybody.
Honza
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
And...the approach can be detrimental. And I loved ballet when I was in high school. I was a wannabe bunhead without the quote unquote, I keep doing quote unquote, quote unquote facility to do ballet. And now I know that I can do ballet no matter what.
Honza
Wouldn't it be nice if you left college with that conviction as opposed to then having to reprogram yourself to get back to it, right? Wouldn't it be nice to leave a program that is supposed to be focusing on your passion, feeling confident in it, and knowing what you have to offer as opposed to being broken down and then having to crawl your way back to liking it and then seeing yourself as invaluable? Yeah.
Jessica Altchiler
Exactly. Yeah, I learned to hate it and I learned to hate my body and it didn't have to be like that. And so to me, if you have a different approach as a teacher and say, what can my individual student get from this class, get from this technique, get from this style?
Honza
Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
So again, I'm talking very broadly and there were some teachers who were so much better at this than others. And there were a couple of moments where ballet wasn't the worst. But since the overarching takeaway from me was I'm bad at ballet, I'm never gonna do ballet, my body's bad, my body doesn't fit in this style, I'm gonna just hate it and hate myself. That was...
Honza
Hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
overpowering the small positives or the teachers that were a little bit more encouraging. Yeah, exactly. So there's a lot of bureaucracy, there's a lot of politics when it comes to institutions. And so I'm talking about,
Honza
are the little triumphs. Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
We need to have change on the institutional level. We need to have change within the program itself. And then we need to have change with what the teachers are doing and how they are approaching. So like we've talked about, Catherine Cabeen in Graham class, I can't sit cross -legged anymore because I'm in so much pain. My hips are tight and my knee hurts, all of this stuff. Cabeen brings over a yoga block to sit on.
Honza
Mm -hmm. I've saw people doing Grammian chairs. Yeah, or not taking modern at all.
Jessica Altchiler
What? No one does that. But yeah, yeah. So, yeah. So it's that kind of, how can you look at each individual and celebrate where they are, celebrate their body, celebrate all of who they can be? And as a teacher,
Honza
Hmm .Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
Yes, I'm teaching this one technique, okay? But how can I really instill in the student that the technique is supposed to be offering them something? They're not supposed to be giving themselves up and sacrificing their mind and body to be good at this technique or to be good in this class.
Honza
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm…that was predominantly important 50 years ago. Yeah. But.
Jessica Altchiler
Right. So what can we do? So what can I do as a teacher? And I guess I'll add one more layer, which is giving programs or resources to the students so that they can go into these programs and have more of a sense of empowerment and embodiment and confidence to say, yeah, I am just gonna take what I can and leave the rest. Oh yeah, my worth isn't defined by how great I am at ballet, whatever it is. Like I know who I am, I'm gonna keep discovering myself. I'm gonna go to this yoga class, I'm gonna do my journaling, all the things that I do now. my gosh, if I knew to do these things then, I mean, you don't have much time to do them, but even the littlest amount would make the biggest difference.
Honza
I just had like this huge like fireworks in my brain. I was like, wouldn't it be amazing if one class, especially like maybe junior year, you were required to take a class somewhere outside of the city. Maybe there's like three studios that have a program affiliation with college and all you have to do is go take it, not pay extra because it's a part of your tuition and then just have this paper in which you show, well, this week I took this person's class here. Boom, done. Instead of your regular modern class, like forcing us out into the real world to make these connections with people who are not just affiliated with the school, but because both you're gonna get the school's name out there, and at the same time you're forcing your kids to leave the nest, and maybe, you know, maybe like network that way. That would be a cool way to do that, because then you could choose who you like, what style you wanna take, if you wanna take it down, Gibney, granola, rolling on the ground, or if you wanna go up to steps and live your trina fantasy. Like, wouldn't that be great if they weren't so afraid to keep us locked in until we got that diploma?
Jessica Altchiler
Mm -hmm.
Honza
so he wouldn't run away.
Jessica Altchiler
Well, that's the really complicated thing because it is a business transaction, right? So we're here and we're paying them money. So they're like you're saying, unless there's some way that they're going to benefit as well financially too, then they're not going to go and send us out. And we're not going to go out and just pay extra money on top of our tuition to go and do that. But I think that if you are a well -rounded program, it's going to prepare your students for the realities…
Honza
Mm -hmm….spend extra money on top of tuition.
Jessica Altchiler
of what they're going to see professionally, then it's your responsibility to bring that kind of versatility into your program. And I also think that we need the wellness workshop that I created.
Honza
Mm -hmm. Yeah.
Honza
Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica Altchiler
that I tried to bring in my senior year, also a spark for this podcast. I needed that. I needed someone to come in and tell me that there was more to life than this program and that there was more to me than being a dancer and that there's more to being a dancer, like, and that being a dancer also being an artist.
Honza
being a human.
Jessica Altchiler
Because that was lost too. Yeah, and being a fucking human. A fucking...
Honza
Yeah, because you know what I am realizing about that now, that I think if someone had come and said that to me senior year or at any point, I would always push those things aside because I always thought I was gonna be one of the 2 % who makes it. But that doesn't make, you're not exempt from that because even if you do have quote unquote successful career straight out of college, you still need to figure out a way to live as a person. Even if you're working all the time, you're still gonna have to take care of your body. You're still gonna have to figure out coping mechanisms for when you don't get the job or when someone's being an asshole to you or when it's a toxic environment or when your emotions kick in or when life kicks in. It's just like, it's regardless of how successful you are within what you're trying to accomplish, life is always gonna be here to trip you up. So that workshop, as I'm understanding it, it's not, this is just for the people who don't make it. This is how you are going to be, you know, it's for anyone on any part of the spectrum.
Jessica Altchiler
Correct, Because guess what? You could graduate and go right into your dream job and still be fucking miserable. So it doesn't, it's not about the job and it was never about the job. And also what does professional success mean to you? For some people it's NDT, for some people it's Broadway, for some people it's opening a dance studio, for some people it's being a mom.
Honza
and go to NDT. Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
The success that we're all conditioned to believe when we're in a program like that is not always aligned with what's in our heart. And that is when you get really tripped up. And that is when it becomes really, really, really challenging and disorienting and you feel really disconnected from your own self. So that is also very layered.
Honza
Mm -hmm.
Honza
Absolutely. We're going to put this in a tiny little box. I'm going to move on to the other segment. It might be a little harder. I want to just have some questions about the assault. If you feel comfortable sharing. We don't have to go into crazy detail. I remember listening to the episode last week. I was very surprised that you had considered transferring schools. This was even prior, but I had no idea that that was a thing. So that, that, that hit me hard. If we just talk about your Marymount experience and I would, I'm not saying that it, like it all led to that event, but it's sort of because it happened senior year. It almost feels that way. You as a 30 year old now, it was just your birthday, 30 year old Jess, do you, in your heart of hearts, do you wish that it never happened, knowing what you know now and knowing the human that you've become because and spite alongside of it? Or if you had the power to go back and not have it happen, would you go back?
Jessica Altchiler
Yes.
Honza
Yes.
Jessica Altchiler
I would because I think that we find a way to make meaning of the pain and trauma, but I don't think it's required. I don't think it's required. Yeah, I'll take it back. I'll definitely take it back. I'd like to go back and not have to stop.
Honza
Amen. Yeah, we can all evolve.
Jessica Altchiler
trusting people or feeling safe for having to work so hard to get back into my body. Yeah, I would absolutely take it all back. 100%. I think I would have still done this, like not having that experience. There were still tons of issues to be talked about and improved upon. And I, my fire in my belly was there for these topics far before that.
Honza
Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
So yeah, I'll take it back. Is that an option?
Honza
Well, I wish I had it out. In my alternative reality in which I do live in the Harry Potter universe, yes, we're getting a time turner and we're fixing it. Yeah, that's I wish. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. I appreciate that. Because I feel like we are in a culture that does exactly as you said, like glorifying meaning making out of trauma. And we're like, well, if this didn't happen, I didn't regret anything. I'm so happy that like I wouldn't have been here. I'm like, no, no, you were on track to be an amazing person, even if the trauma was a little less. Yeah.
Jessica Altchiler
Perfect.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah, yeah. It's also when people talk about trauma bonding and things like that. And that's so real because a lot of us had, we had that. We absolutely had that and we're family now. But guess what? I thought we could have been family otherwise.
Honza
It is. Yeah, because you, yeah.
Honza
We could have been friends even without this. Yep. Making light of it.
Jessica Altchiler
I get it, and also it makes sense. We need to try to make meaning of some of these things. And I worked hard to do that, but it doesn't mean that I don't wish it didn't happen. Yeah, thank God that happened because I got to go through all of these trials because of it.
Honza
Right. you're like, I'm so glad that happened. I wouldn't have been where I am. Yeah, no.
Honza
No, I appreciate that. I think it's very nice to hear an honest answer in this way. So a lot of people sugar coat it. Okay, moving on. Where I'm just going to read this because I think I wrote it. Where's the separation between your own healing journey after that and the branch that goes into I want to get accountability for the specific person that did this. Like where did I'm sure at the beginning those things must have just been like one one branch flowing out of there. Where were you able to separate regardless of what happens in terms of repercussions. This is what I need to do for myself to heal and be better. And when did…
Jessica Altchiler
Mm.
Honza
this other branch started growing and like, okay, I'm working on this and I want to now go back into the mess of it and make sure that me as a person going through it helps the people who might potentially become victims do not too. Where were you able to separate the two and was it ever hard and were you ever in a situation where you're like, this is not worth pursuing because it's not helping me heal.
Jessica Altchiler
Great question. It started off as wanting to prevent other people from experiencing it. That was my way into the healing because I didn't tell anybody about it. I pretended it didn't happen to myself. And eventually I sought out therapy, but it wasn't...
Honza
Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
even because I was really ready to heal or address it. It was more that I felt like I should. I was like, okay, it's been a year. Maybe I'll open that up. And I didn't even tell her about it for many sessions. And I didn't tell her that because usually they ask you, are you starting for any particular reason? And I'm like, nah, just feel like it. But yeah. And,
Honza
Yeah, I don't trust you yet. I'm not telling you my darkest secrets.
Jessica Altchiler
And then it was the height of the Me Too movement and the Larry Nassar case was in all the headlines and everything. And I believe I was overcome with, my God, he's still working everywhere. I mean, he's still working at Marymount. He's still working at all these other places. He did this thing to me. But I think in the moment, I still had a lot of shame about and confusion about, and how did I get myself in this situation? Why didn't I get myself out of this situation? And so that was, yeah. And so that was really, that was the biggest hurdle initially for me to overcome, but it was easier to get into it. Like, regardless of the blame I'm putting on myself,
Honza
I should have known better.
Jessica Altchiler
he's still in a position to hurt other people. And that's why I'm gonna come forward because for me, it's much easier to take action. And that's when I reached out to Catherine and asked her what the first step was. And I went forward to the school and everything like that. So getting him fired from the school was that big a step. And I don't know that I can exactly pinpoint where that intersected with my own personal healing. I think it came through the investigation and the getting him fired and then putting my story out there, writing my story and posting it and sharing it and sharing it to the Marymount faculty members. And I remember slowly starting to tell my friends, I remembered where I told you, we were in a park. Do you remember that?
Honza
Mm -hmm.
Honza
Yeah, I remember I was visiting New York and I had no idea I was, yeah, no. Oof. Yeah, I was just flabbergasted, yeah.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah. Do you remember what happened? And can you tell us about me telling you? I don't remember telling anybody.
Honza
think we were, it was one of those times we were, I think we were meeting Nick's brother and maybe Lexi was there. This was a few years post college and it was one of those moments. I think you were visiting the city. So we actually made a date. Maybe Rosie was there too. Yeah. I just came out of nowhere. I think we were just chatting. I think it was before the rest of the people showed up. And I just remember being very confused because I had no idea. And I think at that point we were already talking intensely enough that I was like, well, I would, I would know. If this, like you would have told me at some point, like this would have not been, I don't want to say a secret, but this would have been something I had an inkling about. And I just…I'm just gonna make it into another question. Did the investigation and your pursuit of trying to find, like get repercussions, get some sort of follow through on changing things, did that make you sharing your story easier? Would you say that the more you were sort of maybe forced through the investigation to share it, and the more you talked about it and spoke it out loud, did that make it easier? Did that take some of the weight off? And is that something you would recommend to people who might have gone through a similar situation to sort of start moving from a place of shame or a place of, I can, I can talk about this. Do you feel like the sharing is the key?
Jessica Altchiler
I think it was my key. I don't think it's necessarily going to be everyone's key. And I had a very particular situation where this was someone who was in my industry, but it's not like they, it was a name or somebody that people knew. Like he was just a random teacher in this random little bubble and that made it easier. It's really, there are all these different layers to speaking out.
Honza
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
And I know other people who have been in that situation or a similar one with him who will not come forward or don't want to come forward yet or whatever it is. And I completely, completely understand it so hard. It becomes something that people always associate with you forever. And I remember talking to a mentor.
Honza
Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
who was really supportive of my decision to come forward and tell my story, but also said to me, you know, the internet is forever. And once you put something out there, there are no take backs. There are no take backs. And so, you know, at the age of, I think I was 22, 22, maybe 23, I'm making this decision that will always be this story connected to my name. And I think that to me in order to heal or my sense of healing was completely connected to just telling the facts of what happened. And even when I told the story to other people, eventually told people what happened like you and other people, it was all about the facts. This is what happened.
It wasn't like, and this is how it's making me feel emotionally. I think you don't even necessarily have that capacity in those earlier moments. Now I can look back and see all of the different ways that it's influenced my life to this day. But even so, it's not, I don't think I've gotten really to the heart of the emotional element of it. It's still very action -based. Like I will not go one -on -one with a male masseuse or doctor or anything like that. I just won't do it. I really resist having...
Honza
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
men in terms of doctors or anything like that, even if they're virtual, sometimes I have to, but it's not something I want to do. And there's a lot, I mean, there are so many things, like anytime I see an older man with gray hair from afar, I'm like, is that him? I can be walking in Spain and I'll think that. And I also, this is something really interesting. There are certain words that he used to use that when he was my mentor, I really appreciated. And I'll give an example of that. And one of those words was vital. I don't remember that, but he always used to say like vitality, like vital. It’s that amazing word and it's a word that's so me. Like that word is so me, right? Such a good descriptor, such, and I just can't use it. And I mean, anytime I hear it, it's like triggering for me. And last week when I was editing my episode, I listened and I paused it immediately and I was like, my God, I used the word vital.
Honza
vital.
Jessica Altchiler
And I didn't realize it. But there was something really special about that. I kept it in. So I was like, dang, I took it back. But yeah, so all of those ways in which I still am seeing how...
Honza
Did you keep it in? Gift it in. Taking back the power.
Jessica Altchiler
I've created my life around protecting myself in that way and also just a lot of different kinds of triggers. But my way of coping was in storytelling and in moving forward with those actions and the investigation and everything like that. And if you're curious, I mean, it's hard to say, how do I? How do I know what would have happened had I not talked about it? But that is one thing where I don't regret doing that. I think it really shapes my life, shapes who I am. I think that I… I know that I've impacted some people who have heard my story and said, this happened to me or something similar with him, with someone else, whatever it is. And I always said, if one person was benefited from me sharing my story, it would have been worth it. And so that has definitely been worth it to me. Yeah. And.
Honza
Already happened. Yeah.
Jessica Altchiler
I also think that that honesty, and I will say also that bravery of coming forward, is also an integral part of who I am as an artist because I will not stand back and ignore things happening around me. I will voice the problems and I've been warned that that's a dangerous thing to do when you're trying to get a job. But I fully believe that I'll find the right people to work with and I already have. I already have.
Honza
It is. People who see it as a strength of yours rather than, my gosh, she's being annoying again. She's talking about this thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah. And I only want to work with somebody who's going to say, yeah, let's not keep perpetuating these abuses and toxic environments and toxic people, toxic behaviors. I don't want to work with somebody who is going to ignore that anyway. So hopefully that I come in, so hopefully I can come in as whatever it is, a performer and associate, a creator of something.
Honza
Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
be like, everyone knows I have nothing to hide about who I am. This is who I am. This is what I represent. This is what I'm going to bring. And I hope to just keep connecting to the people who are aligned with that.
Honza
Thank you for saying that. And I just have to say, because you mentioned it like maybe a few minutes ago, that it's something that follows you forever. I, even after finding out and even after all this time that I'm learning more and more about it, just so you know, from my perspective, I never thought of, my perception of you never shifted to like, Jess, the sexual assault survivor. Like it's not the forefront of my mind at all. And a lot of times I have to like remind myself, I was like, and also you have this experience and this perspective. But to me, whenever I think of you, I just think of, Smile Sunshine, Great Talker, my best, like one of the best support systems, and I think of your drive for creativity. Like it's not even in the top five things that I think of you, that I think of when I think of you. Yeah. So, you know, okay. Wrapping up this heavy segment that we have. I don't know if you watch Drag Race because RuPaul always like asks the contestants towards the finale, just the last few, that he like holds up pictures of their younger selves and he sort of does this therapeutic thing of like, here they are in the best gown they brought, like having conquered the competition, like what would you say to your younger self? So I was just wondering if you could talk to the pre -college Jess for a little bit, then your sophomore year Jess, and then the senior year Jess towards the end, let's say post the sexual assault, what would you say to those three? Let's say, and you couldn't change anything, you couldn't change their trajectories of what they're gonna go through. They would still be going through what you're going through, but let's say you would have two minutes with each of them. What would you say?
Honza
Keeping it light.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah, keeping it so light as we do. Yeah, pre -college Jess, I would say. The environment in which you're about to enter is so intense but you don't have to take all of that on. People are all doing their best and people...say and do things because it's all they know and You are enough. Your body is beautiful. You are an artist. And when you go and walk into that building, see it as a buffet. What can I take from this teacher? What can I learn from this class? I hated that. Now as an adult, my favorite thing is when I don't like something because sometimes I get overwhelmed with how much I love and I'm like, What am I doing with my life? I love this. I love that. I want to do this. I want to do that. And when I hate something, whether it's like a piece of like, yes, literally, when someone talks about something I'm not interested in, I'm like, yes, I'm not interested in that topic. Like I genuinely get so excited and I wish I knew that. I felt like you were supposed to like everything that you were being given. Like this is what you're choosing this path.
Honza
Like that's off the menu, I'm not gonna go back to that. Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Jessica Altchiler
And this is what you're supposed to like. And this is what you're supposed to do, period. Versus, I hated that class. I hated that rehearsal. Amazing. It's all data. You're gathering data. So, my gosh, what great data. I hate that. I hate that class. that teacher spoke to me like that. Ooh, what a great quote for my book. What a great scene for the TV show.
Honza
That's a gem. So the villain is... I always say that... Yeah. Yeah, you do, I'm sure.
Jessica Altchiler
Yes, literally. And just so you know, I have that all fleshed out from all of it. So that's, that's coming. That's coming.
Honza
The quotes, the quotes have been immortalized. There's a PDF. Good.
Jessica Altchiler
They have them, truly. So that's what I would say to pre -college Jess. Like this is a game, this is a blank canvas. You are going into something with people who are just humans. They're doing their best too. Guess what? Their best isn't good enough though. And I stand by that. But know that you know who you are in your heart.
Honza
Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
Try not to lose your passion and your love for this thing. And sophomore Jess, I say leave. I look back and I'm like, well, if I left, then I wouldn't have studied abroad and I wouldn't have had these amazing opportunities. And that's true, but what else could have happened in those two, in those following two years? I don't know what goodness could have happened. I don't believe that if I left everything would have been perfect. I just mean that I was wanting to leave for so long. I was wanting to leave every single day for those first two years. And it just got to the point where I didn't make the decision to leave. And I was like, all right, I guess I'm staying.
Honza
For all the reasons we've talked about, you know.
Jessica Altchiler
Yes, yes. And again, I can look back and be like, well, thank God I studied abroad and it led to all these things and thank God I was able to create this family that is forever with my friends. And thank God I met certain professors in those last two years and all of that. But I do think in my heart, I wanted to leave and I was just afraid to leave. So that's what I'd say to her. And then I guess end of senior year, Jessie. she's the one who always gets me. She always gets me.
Honza
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
There's nothing.
I don't know. I don't know what to say to her. I would just say it's okay and it's going to be okay. And yeah, you've been through a lot of shit and it's going to take a long time to work through it. But the time that you're spending in the silences and in the confusion and in the mourning is not wasted time. It's necessary. It's part of your life. It's not like once you get a job, then your life has meaning. Or once you're feeling happy again, then your life has meaning. There's always going to be ups and downs. No, I would actually tell her to go see a psychiatrist. 100%. I didn't have that knowledge back then that that's really what was necessary. It's not that medicine would have changed everything or stopped the pain or stopped the mourning or given me an answer. Just like I mentioned last episode, it just would have made it a little more doable. It would have made me a little more able to see what's right in front of me and not be just so entirely overwhelmed with what was going on. Just makes it a little bit.
Honza
now.
Jessica Altchiler
Makes the pain a little bit more mild. Bearable, yeah.
Honza
Thank you. I appreciate that. All right, so the heavy segment is over and I just want to get ourselves back into more of a maybe a fun or a little lighthearted or a little forward looking segment towards the podcast again. So these can be long answered, short answered up to you. But okay, first question about the podcast itself. Where do you see it in five years from now?
Jessica Altchiler
Ooh, five years, I would love to be rocking and rolling with weekly episodes, bringing more and more different kinds of artists with different backgrounds and experiences. I already have some things in the works with doing different segments and different, with different guest hosts and things like that. And I want to keep evolving that. I hope also that I have the opportunity to help other people create podcasts because now that I'm not an expert by any means, but I know enough that if you want to start, I could give you some pointers and things like that. So I hope I'm in a place too, where I'm able to help educate and maybe produce other people's podcasts, things like that, because I love this medium. I love conversations. I always have, as you know, and.
Honza
Mm -hmm.
Jessica Altchiler
that, yeah, and I hope I have really fun ads, like therapy ads. You're gonna get there. Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.
Honza
I'm gonna get to it, I'm gonna get to it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Okay, okay, so before we hit that, my second question is, what are your three dream guests, regardless of plausibility? It can go from bat pit to like, your, you know, your, I don't know, your like peer, anyone.
Jessica Altchiler
Okay, shoot. Dreamcasts. Okay, three dream guests. my God, my God. ooh, the first one that popped in my head was Maggie Rogers, who's... Yes, I'm using it. Hansa just played the air guitar.
Honza
Okay, I don't want it to be recorded, but I'm not sure who that is, but I'm pretty sure I know who that is. She's a songwriter, right? Yeah.
Jessica Altchiler
my gosh, that was so good. I love her so much. Yes, she's brilliant and she has inspired me so much. I love her music. I saw her live. She was outstanding live and just outrageously fearless with her singing. Like it was raw and it was real and she was just going for it. And...I just love her and I am obsessed with talking about craft and how you make things and things like that. And I know she's done a lot of interviews about that kind of stuff, but I would just, I would love to rock and roll with her. My second is Kara Young, who is an actress I saw in Purlie Victorious. And she...There are no words to describe her magic and her brilliance. And she gave a life -changing performance and I would again just love to pick her brain and hear her story and celebrate her. And one more would be, should I see someone from like Survivors?
Honza
Nice. I love that whoever you're picking, I'm like, I marginally slash don't know them at all, but I love that.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah, I love that too.
Jessica Altchiler
It's so funny because if you just said to me like, pick a few, I would pick a few. But I feel like because you said pick your, did you say top three or did you just say pick three?
Honza
Mm -hmm.
Honza
I said three dream guests. I didn't say necessarily top three, but you're treating it like that. I love that. Yeah.
Jessica Altchiler
Three jingles.
Okay. Okay. My last one. Ooh, okay. I'm going to do two more and they'll be quick. Joni Mitchell because...
Honza
Okay, okay. my god, my god, my god, my god, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, because there's not much time left. Let's do it now. No, with all my, all the love in my heart, absolutely. She might be up there for me too if I were to, yeah, absolutely.
Jessica Altchiler
God.
Jessica Altchiler
She's probably, yeah, she's number one for sure. And then someone else, my last one will be Mandy Moore because I love her so much. I really, yeah, I really got to know her with This Is Us and I'm just fascinated in her story and the fact that she, I've listened to her speak and she had spoken about how she was.
Honza
Mm -hmm. This is us.
Jessica Altchiler
not that secure in terms of her acting and especially being all these around all these professionals who were trained in everything. And so of course I would, she did have like those kinds of movies and stuff like that, but she did, she was like a pop star. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm, I'm fascinated in that. I love, as Yancey taught me, I love someone with an octopus career. I feel like I'm going to have and slash already have an octopus career. And that is someone who definitely has that. And I've read or heard that she was going to quit acting and go back to Florida and get her masters and just go down a totally different path before right before this is us. And I love stories like that. You hear that a lot. so I want to sink my teeth into that story. She's amazing. my God. That was like the hardest question for me.
Honza
Yeah, I do too. All right. I'm so sorry for the audience. I love that they're all women if they identify as that. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. And now going slightly back, if you have three dream advertising companies that you would love to have on as, you know, like people who sponsor videos, like whenever they sponsor videos or podcasts, and that's the thing that the money goes to, and you also highlight them. So if it was something that wasn't just for money's sake, but if it was something that it could be like, yes, please give me your money.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah, yeah.
Honza
I'll give you an ad spot and at the same time I'm loving that I get to highlight this specific company or product.
Jessica Altchiler
a thousand percent number one would be therapy, any kind of online therapy, I would love it to be, and this doesn't really exist to my knowledge, but I would love it to be some kind of health insurance.
So just going on that theme and then.
Honza
Mm -hmm.
What's your favorite snack?
Jessica Altchiler
you know, just giving people their basic human rights with health and just do my little part. My favorite snack. My first thought was a spin drift moment. The seltzer.
Honza
The drink. Yeah, my god. Yeah, good.
Jessica Altchiler
I guess that's not a snack. I liked, yes, Benderift.
Honza
All right, all right, moving on with these short, sparkly questions. What's your one career dream regardless of gatekeeping? So let's say no doors are closed. One thing that you could do, it can be like direct a movie, fly and shoot a documentary in Africa. Like one thing, because you always say how you're like such a good person, like dipping your toes in one of each. Maybe let's say it's something you haven't done, something you would like to add as an octopus limb.
Jessica Altchiler
Okay, so I'm going to try to do this in a sneaky way. And if you call me out on it, then I'll do a second one. But my sneaky way of doing it is to say, I want to have my own production company, which allows me to then, I might act in this thing. I might direct this thing. I might just produce this thing. I might write this thing. It allows me to be the octopus.
Honza
Calling out now.
Honza
I think that's a great answer because a production company in itself is something you have to create. Like that's a goal. And then, yeah, of course you would say that. Like I want the thing that allows me to do more things. Brilliant. Brilliant. Okay okay, moving on. Rapid, rapid fire, what's your favorite movie?
Jessica Altchiler
Okay. Promising young woman.
Honza
Never seen it. no, no, no, no, no. We have heard of that. That's okay. Okay, okay, okay. That makes sense. Well, who's your one favorite music artist? It can be a group.
Jessica Altchiler
Maggie Rogers.
Honza
There you go, it all ties together. What's your one favorite TV show?
Jessica Altchiler
Veep.
Honza
Love it. What's your favorite Broadway show?
Jessica Altchiler
Rent. my God. I'm literally letting these things fly out. Yeah. I'm not thinking about it at all and I'm surprising myself a little. Yeah.
Honza
Rent? You're just letting it out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No takesies, back -sees. Your favorite company. Dance company, sorry. Your favorite dance company. Perfect. Who's your favorite choreographer?
Jessica Altchiler
dance company, I don't have one.
Jessica Altchiler
Jessica Chen.
Honza
Nice. What's one favorite country you've visited?
Jessica Altchiler
Spain.
Honza
Love it. Okay, I'm gonna read this. If the world were to be over in 20 years from now, and we all knew it, in 20 years it's lights out, ball of fire, world debt, what would you do? Focus on spend time doing in the next 20 years. Like what would be the one thing? We're all gone in 20 years. It's over.
Jessica Altchiler
So does that mean?
Jessica Altchiler
So does that mean I don't have to think about like climate change and stuff that's going to be done anyway?
Honza
Money. No, that's why we're dead in 20 years. Yeah, ball of fire. We just...
Jessica Altchiler
But I mean, I don't, I mean, it's, we're already dead, so I don't need to like work towards it.
Honza
It's not salvageable. Yeah, it's not salvageable. There's no point in trying to prevent it.
Jessica Altchiler
Okay. In 20 years, I'd still, I would do exactly what I'm doing. Partially, I would do my podcasts. I would do my writing. I would try to get more of my writing out there. I would go through my journals, which I have a plan to do and kind of excavate and see what goodies are laying in the closet there. And Yeah, just spend time with people I love. I would just keep trying to get to know people and learn their stories and learn about what I could do and we could do to make their lives better in some way while we're here.
Honza
Thank you. Well, I want to thank you for spending time with me talking this way. And there's one last question I need to ask to bring us home. Jess, what is your human bio? Off of your resume, as you like to say, something that people can't understand.
Jessica Altchiler
Ugh.
Honza
Something that people cannot glean just by looking at your resume. So something you want to share with us as a human, Jess, if you were to introduce yourself to someone.
Jessica Altchiler
Someone asked me this in one of the episodes coming up for season three, and I don't remember what I said anyway, and I haven't prepared today, which is hilarious because why wouldn't I think that you would ask this? But yeah. Okay. My human bio is that I am a lover. I love people. I am heartbroken every day seeing people suffering.
Honza
The one question that is universal for everyone.
Jessica Altchiler
on every level. And I never feel like I'm doing enough, but I'm always trying to be kinder to myself about that. And I am obsessed with dogs and puppies and babies. And I feel like I have some kind of, I say that dogs can really like, psychically feel my dog energy because they will just stop and stare at me and I'll stare at them, look them in the eyes and I will just turn and I'll be like, see, look, like I'm a dog. And I, what else?
Honza
It's a face off.
Jessica Altchiler
I'm just really curious. I have a really hard time making decisions, which as you can imagine, makes creating a podcast very challenging, but also a wonderful practice in being like, I could spend weeks editing one episode, but I'm not going to. I'm not going to cut that uhm. I'm not going to cut that like, that like is staying in here. And just as for the like,
Honza
Justice for the like.
Jessica Altchiler
I love the water and the sun. I love being sweaty. And yeah, I have a lot I want to do in my life. A lot of it, if not all of it is connected somehow to people and to art. And I think ultimately I'm just in the process now of learning how to be more present. And instead of just looking at everything that's coming and everything that's in the future, being here and starting in the now. That's kind of where I am today.
Honza
Thank you. Bye -Ciao.
Jessica Altchiler
That's me.
Does me.
Honza
Dear listeners, thank you and join us next week for another... Jess will do the outro. She knows, she knows what's coming. I really appreciate you.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for that, Honza. I love you so much. Okay, everybody. So this is our season two wrap, and we will be back in the fall with season three. All the episodes are recorded, edited, ready to go from my computer to your ears, but you're going to have to wait because that's how we do things here. And...
Honza
I love you too.
Jessica Altchiler
I'm so grateful to you, Honza, for taking the time to do this and preparing your questions. And I kind of just loosely was like, hey, just wondering if you're interested. He's like, I've been making questions on my notes app. Okay, let's do this thing. And that did not surprise me. We've come a long way, my friend.
Honza
Amen, you've come a long way.
Jessica Altchiler
you've come a long way too. And there will be more conversations with us and everyone listening. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for supporting this and I will see you next season. Thank you. Bye.