Allowing Yourself to Grow, and Pause, with Lee Hubilla

Show Notes

Lee Hubilla is an actor whose performances have graced the screen on Law & Order: SVU, Dash & Lily, and FBI: Most Wanted and on the stage at The Magnet, The PIT, and Ars Nova. She was an acting mentee under Lena Waithe’s Hillman Grad Mentorship Lab and had a writing mentorship under Giant Leap’s inaugural accelerator program.

In today’s episode, Lee and Jessica discuss the deeper rewards and empowerment that came from chopping their hair, the impact of dance on identity and self-perception, and the process of reconnecting with your body after trauma. 

Lee shares how she transitioned from dancer to actor and writer, what she learned from taking conscious breaks from her chosen crafts, and how to embrace the messiness of life. 

Follow along on Lee’s journey: @butactuallee

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Transcript

Jessica Altchiler

Hello and welcome to the story project. I'm your host, Jessica Altchiler, and today's guest is Lee Hubilla, an actor, writer and the first theist of earth signs. Born and raised in New Jersey. She began her life in the performing arts as a dancer training at the School of American Ballet, Alvin Ailey and graduating from professional performing arts high school. She went on to perform with various contemporary dance companies in New York City including Sidra Bell dance, Dr. Lee also taught and choreographed urban and contemporary dance including a brief stint on the MTV is America's Best Dance Crew. Lee's acting experiences on screen have included Law and Order SVU Dash and Lily and FBI most wanted and on stage have included improv and sketch comedy at the magnet and the pit and PS at Ars Nova. Lee was also an acting mentee under Lena Waithe Spellman grad mentorship lab as a writer whose work has included sketch comedy at the Pitt independent short films, including the Asian American film lab, and a mentorship under giant leaps inaugural accelerator program. In today's episode, Lee shares how she transitioned from dancers, actor and writer what she learned from taking conscious breaks from her chosen crafts and the process of reconnecting with her body after trauma. Please enjoy this episode with Lee Hubillia. Okay, hi, Lee. Hi. Hi. How are you today?

Lee Hubilla

I'm good. I'm good. It's taking longer to get over jetlag than I anticipated. But that's okay. I got up this morning. I got a hair trim.

Jessica Altchiler

We're ready. Looks great. Thank you. You're like one of my cut the hair short. inspirations?

Lee Hubilla

Oh, my God, what an honor. Thank you. I'd like to be the ambassador for drop it all off. Honestly, I just think it was so freeing and life changing when I did it. I like they feel so different. has a lot to do. It just like changed my energy. And in a great way. I think I was like, Oh, there I am.

Jessica Altchiler

I feel the same way. And also, there's a lot of people around me who make a lot of people love it. But a lot of people are like, Oh, we miss your long hair. And it's been really interesting. Seeing how different I feel with it short, and how empowering it is. And also to say hey, like, I don't care what you think about my hair, which is such a part of our identity. Yeah, well, I feel like

Lee Hubilla

it takes a personal choice. And like a, like a strong personal choice in a certain direction. And then once you get that, like hit of self validation, you kind of, you know, everyone's always like, yeah, I don't care what everyone thinks, you know, like, yeah, no, I don't. But until like you do something that really is kind of like it could be like not polarizing a strong, I don't think hairs that big of a deal. But people could just like honestly have different opinions out like that good feeling you have and be like, No, I love this. It you know, like, Oh, this is what it's like to actually not care what people think. Gives it easier said than done. You're like, how do you do that. And if you're, I think hair fashion. Those are big ones for me where I'm like, I actually like really don't care what people think. And it really is about I do it for myself. And how I feel really is ultimately the most important. And I'm like how can I get that energy like to, like, dissipate into the rest of my life or it's way harder, especially like, as a person, you know, as a performer, creator, where like, everything feels like it's for other people to have these things that are so strongly like, just for you. I think that's like how you it's like a muscle. I think that's how you kind of start figuring it out and working out be like, Oh, no, I know what it feels like to love something because it's just for me, or it nourishes me or reflects how I feel like I am and want to be and then you can try that and other things in your life. You know, 100%

Jessica Altchiler

I definitely felt like I was pulled to cut it for a really long time. And then I had a job where we weren't allowed to cut our hair and my hair was so long and thick and heavy. And then over the pandemic, when I realized I wasn't going back on the job. I was like, Okay, I'm going to cut it I'm going to do I'm going to do it. And I I felt pulled towards that idea. And then when I did it, I didn't realize how much weight it literally took off of my shoulders. Yeah, for so many reasons. Like someone who's has struggled with her body. Okay, I was hiding myself like I could put my hair down and I was hiding and different things that came up for me.

Lee Hubilla

That's so funny that you say that because later really saying my hair was like so long for so and it would be this thing where I was like, I don't even really do my hair. Because I'm not like a hair fucking stylist. I can't Sorry, I can curse on this. Is that okay? Yeah.

Jessica Altchiler

Every single episode, okay, perfect, um,

Lee Hubilla

I will only grow. I would like it'd be like, it'd be like a shirt, like the shirt I wore like, didn't really matter because like three quarters of my torso was my hair. And I wouldn't really need to do it. And it just kind of was, it felt like a personality sort of, and to cut it was kind of like, felt kind of crazy. But then I felt like oh, my, it just like, opened all of this up. I feel like you know, and I'm sure we'll get into it, a lot of woo going on. And so just like from like, an energetic perspective, the somatic perspective of like, even just like the way I'm carrying my body, and like, this hair sort of, like provided a shield of sorts, you know, to sort of sensitive like chakras, if you will. And suddenly, it was like, oh, no, we're open. But it was so liberating. I think literally freeing. And it also, like, changed a little, like, the way that I dress. And the I don't, you know, like, I'm like, oh, which, yeah, it's a haircut, maybe it'll change my dress, but like it yeah, just changed shifted everything in terms of my, like, self perception.

Jessica Altchiler

Yeah. And it may seem like, Oh, we're talking about hair and a hair cut. And it's not a big deal. But when you have all of the pressures that we have as human beings and as women, and you make a decision that goes any amount against the grain, it is empowering, it is scary. And it also can then be a perfect lead into other decisions and bigger decisions and make a decision that empowers you even at a cost and potential cost in general. So you think about it. We're actors. So how was actually cut your hair? Yeah, that that puts you in a particular a different box, but it also feels like it can be limiting, but also, maybe you are shining through more so you can be seen better and clearer for who you are. There are all these layers to it. Yeah.

Lee Hubilla

Yeah, I was gonna say like, it seems, for regular person, like, it's just hair, you can cut it and it grows. But if you're an actor, that's your that's your Colin Carr, baby. That's, that's like the moneymaker. Not your head, maybe for some people, but like your hair, but like, the way you present yourself. And then as I have I like, literally had a conversation with an acting teacher about I want to cut my hair. And when I first cut my hair, I did like this crazy, like, under dyed blonde. I was like very, I was rebelling, I was acting out as what I was doing. And she was like, okay, that's gonna like change things. And I was like, I know, I think that's why I want to do it. Because I like there had been some characters I had auditioned for recently. And I was and I thought about it. In retrospect, I was like, you know, if my hair was different, like, energetically, I sort of felt like I could do this. But I was like, oh, man, if my love my hair was it felt, I felt like it was this like, wig for like the wrong character on me. And the characters also like myself, so it wasn't even just about the audition. I just felt like us, like, there was a sort of like, like, mask over me. And I like feel like I sort of started to shine through a little bit. And then other than, like, the hair felt like the last piece is sort of like unlock it. And it just like, yeah, fortify that I was like, No, I want to be seen differently. I think that's actually the energy that I bring in. If anything this like, long, wavy ingenue moment is confusing, because that's like, not actually what I bring to the table. I'm not like giving Princess locked in a tower. You know? But if it's just a scene, someone's just seeing a picture. And of course, the thing with actors is like, oh, no, any new headshots, you know, that's the first thing you think I've got my hair guy can do pictures. But I was I thought that too. And but then I also was excited about it. I was like, oh, I want to see what this looks like. And I was so so pleased, actually. It's very much like there she is, which is the gag is funny. Like this haircut is also what I had when I was like in preschool, so it's a weird just returning to like baby me just like a bob with bangs. But you know, that I've made me baby me loves it. She's back. She's excited. Yeah. Wow. So much a hair talk. Who knew or

Jessica Altchiler

talk? Yeah, I mean, it. It is just one little piece of how we limit ourselves and how we put on these layers to protect us from the outside world and potentially to be hiding and to not be addressing some part of ourselves that is somewhere in there but can't be accessed because of something that is being put on and I also wonder so Have, you also started as a dancer, and have evolved into an actor and we have connected about that. And I think as a dancer, my experience, I won't speak for everybody. But it is very limiting in a lot of ways. You're told how to look what to do with your body, all of these things. So I wonder if we have that extra layer of needing to shed something or really be empowered in our own decisions about how we look and how we're presenting ourselves and letting it be for us even more because of that added layer of our backgrounds? Oh,

Lee Hubilla

yeah. Yes. I think that I think that's huge. I think and it's interesting is like, if I started a dance, if I was much younger, and if I was dancing, now I think there is a little bit of a, there's a larger appreciation, I think of individuality and uniqueness now in the dance world, than there used to be when I was growing up and training and dancing. So I think yeah, I think you're right, it was it was you know, you're you have you have the hairstyle, you have to have the color leotard, you have to wear the tights you can and cannot wear. And then not to mention the unspoken rules of like, what everyone around you is wearing, and what does look good, and what doesn't look good, and what we do what we don't do, and it's so like, literally, like policed, or like self policed. Because, like, the whole point is that, like, you fit in the core, you know, maybe you can be a soul and maybe this principle are soulless, but like, You got to lean up. Ideally, you want to just look like everybody else on the bar. You know, we all look like a cute little row of you know, copy, copy pasted ducks or whatever, you know. So I think yeah, I think I do think that is a an interesting point about the upbringing and and that's actually like, I was talking to our dear friend Yancey, friend of the pod last night at dinner, and I was saying how I met up a few years ago with a former high school classmate, and we were both dance majors then. And it's interesting now, because now we're both in the acting and writing like Film, Television Theatre World. And we were having a conversation about dance. And they asked me, you know, like, do you prefer acting or dancing now? Or like, which one do you whatever you know, and in that moment, I was like, oh, acting, and they were so surprised. And I thought about it more when I was talking to our friend Yancey last night. And I was like, as far as like, a career and like an environment and a pursuit, it might also just be like, where I was in my life, and then dancing for so long. But there was an element of acting where, when I came in, which is also you know, again, later, my, like, a 910 years ago, or like, I started started, like, check checking into this world that I never really considered. And it was very, like, calm as you are, you know, like, Oh, this is what you're bringing in the room. This is what we're working with. And again, I didn't again, I want to stress I didn't go to like conservatory or like drama school, because I think that would be different. I just like came into New York City acting soon was like, What's going on here? You know, so there I am. The energy that I was approached with, which I think I feel like when you're attracting energy, that is reaffirming, that's important. So I was getting this, like I was met with like, okay, great. This is how you are, this is how we'll take you as and not like, this is what you could be this is how you should change is what everyone else is doing? How close? Or how far are you from the ideal, like, air quotes for the listeners out there, I deal in quotes, you know, and I felt so freeing, and then also, if I changed what I look like, then I would just my tight, quote unquote, would just change also, I just, it would be like different roles. And then same thing also, like with aging, you know, like, I just would you just aged into different types, as opposed to with a dance career, it was like you have this tiny window. And while I still like dances, I think almost now I value, my identity and my experience of dance almost more because it's so personal. It's a personal expression, it's a personal experience, and it feels just like my embodied human experience that is amazing. There's nothing like dancing to music and like, it almost feels like I can't let it be contained until like a career or a job for money. Like I want to be able to, like go out dancing or like dance in my own apartment or you know, like, like that experience of dance is like so incredible and spiritual and important and like it really grounds me and enter like all of those things. It's like it means more to me than like, doing it for a living. You know, um, while acting is something I care so much about. It's something that I am like interested in, in the in the environment which is exists which is you know, has its own issues as well. It's not like it's not like I've crossed over into some like idyllic utopia of like, this is my happy art making place. It's not right. But I just feel more at home there. I feel excited about being there and navigating that while with dance, after all long previous life of navigating that I'm like, I don't want to do that anymore. I value the experience that I had, because I think you just have to value everything that makes you who you are. So, you know, my mom was always like, I'm sorry. Was it okay? Um, like I whatever? I mean, I don't know, mom. Honestly, no. But you know, we've had many years of therapy, and we're happy with where we are. So it's okay, we all just, we're doing our best. And it shaped us into who we are today. And that's kind of, and we're happy with that.

Jessica Altchiler

I'm curious if you feel the same way that I do, which is that I am so afraid to enter any space that feels like most of my negative dance spaces felt where I didn't feel seen. And I didn't feel that I was able to be me. And I felt like my body was wrong. And I was doing it wrong, and all of these things. So I've really been hesitant to even dive headfirst into acting, because I'm so picky about the environment that I'm going to be in, I'm afraid to have an experience with acting like I had with dancing. That's not to say, every everything I did with dance was negative, like the Fiddler on the Roof tour was heaven, heaven as a dancer. And I'm so not trying to just sit here and bash that world. It's just, I wonder if because we had so much baggage there when we got to sort of start fresh in this new environment with this new craft? Are we kind of more carefully crafting? Who we're going to be with? And maybe we have a better sense of, like, maybe we have more flat, like, more guards up that allows us to navigate in spaces that feel particularly safe and right for us. Hmm.

Lee Hubilla

Yeah, it's interesting, I think, I don't know if it's, like made me more hesitant to make it about me.

Jessica Altchiler

I want it to

Lee Hubilla

what is this podcast about me? I, you know, I actually, I think what's to have me like, keep going. I mean, also, to be fair, it will get to it at some point. But like, I took a break from acting for like, a year, this past year. And while I like, did, you know, I was finished up some projects with some friends. And I took some classes. Throughout the years, it was like, keep checking in as far as like, actively pursuing acting as career I took a break, because life was laughing. And it was really like a lot. And I had that moment was like, Oh, it doesn't feel doesn't feel good, feels like a burden. And it stresses me out more than it like, is feeding me. And also just like logistically, literally, I just don't know how it's gonna work. And I just had to burn it all down, and walk away. So, so back to what you were saying of, I feel like I just sort of like kept when I was transitioning to acting, I wasn't even sure if that's what I was doing. I was just sort of like fumbling forward, following my excitement. I want more like, this is great, you know, so I don't know. And this is kind of what I was saying before I don't the six felt sort of like, this is so Whoo, but like, divinely guided or energetically protected me from the like, all the toxicity that I know exists, that so many of my close friends and peers and colleagues have experienced and continue to experience but somehow, I don't know, I was like shielded from it. And I kept finding myself in spaces that were only just affirming and I felt so lucky. And I think a lot of that actually is I IN MY like acting training and career. A lot of my training and even work is like personal referral based so I didn't like go I didn't come back to New York after having a dance career in New York which is like its own thing of like now I'm like back in New York like but it's different now. But it's not you know, at the same place or just like oh god I remember this all these things. But I wasn't I didn't like come up to some institution was like this institution is going to make me feel good. Or this institution is going to make it happen. I literally am caused because maybe I was a little ignorant. Didn't know I was asking like people literally in front of me and around me Feeling, where do you take acting classes are like, well, if I want to do comedy, what does that mean? The study is like so ignorant and not known. Very nice. Someone was like, You mean like improv? Oh, is that what it is? Yeah. So I want to know more about that, you know. And so I just felt so very, like Kismet and synchronous, and I just was going for, like, I would obviously ask someone who's like, vibe, or like work ethic or whatever, something about me want to ask their experience. And if they could recommend, and it's like how it went, I just like went from teacher to teacher. And then also like, random projects, or like theater projects, or stage readings, or plays, or like things just sort of felt like I was always, I always had some sort of personal connection to it. And I ordered some sort of something that sort of line up in terms of values or interests. And I just had to say, like, this feels right. And I really think that's because I didn't block my myself into an institution. And not like a mental institution. I meant, like a formalized School of study, because and listener of the pod, I was listening to your episode with the NC when you're talking about your conservatory experience, I have that as well. You know, I went to conservatory from the age of like, 13, to, like, 18, you know, and I had, it was so intense. And, and I, you know, and it was very confusing for me because I went the opposite route with dancing, because my immigrant mother was looking around at my quota. Like, she also is like, my kid likes to dance. What does this mean, and people, if you got to audition for this school, this is the one and so she just was really doing the same thing that I did. But like, it was all I was like, you gotta go to this school, and this school, and this summer camp and this training program. And I was all like, name and reputation based. So I was amassing this list of like, recognizable, reputable, highly sought after a very exclusive institutions of dance. But I also somehow, like wasn't really getting where I wanted. But and also didn't even really know what I wanted. And my experiences emotionally were like, so crushed, like I had, you know, it was like, really, really hard. And I went through a lot of self doubt and fear and shame, which you go through anyway, from ages 13 to 18. Anyway, and having that exacerbated by a formalized dance conservatory will really pack it on, lay it on thick. And so I just like as like, I can't do it. I was in a class recently. And my, someone else in the class was like, Would you ever go to grad school? Because I was like, I just love taking class, you know, I just love to acting class, it's so great. If I could make a career of just taking class, you know, I love learning, and a lot of ninth house placements for my astrology friends out there. And I just was amazed. I was like, No, and I've had this conversation before people like, what about grad school, I was like, I, you know, I think that's a great path for other people. But just like, I can't do like a conservatory program. I can't lock myself into a, like structured, institutionalized training for four years, I can't two years, however long it is as like, I can't do it. I've did it for so much of my life. I think other people should look into, and I think it might be great, but I just know that I will die again, inside, I can't do it. And so it's really, it's been also confusing for people because they're like, like, if you like know, the people I've studied with, or the people I've worked with, like, I feel like that says a little bit about my quality of work or whatever the kind of work that I do or want to do. And somehow that feels more important than like the cachet, if you will, that comes with having a nice name on your resume, you know, like a big name school

Jessica Altchiler

100% That's, that's something that keeps coming up. And that's a biggie for me highlighting that. A name doesn't matter a credit or someone you study with whatever, it doesn't matter. If it's not giving you something if it's taking more than it's giving, if it's harming you more than it's helping you. No credit. And no school is worth that. And perhaps it is because of the intensity of the training that you had. And I feel the same exact way. I'm like I am I feel allergic to anything that feels too structured.

Lee Hubilla

Yeah, and allergy is a great way to describe it.

Jessica Altchiler

I feel that way also about wearing tights or leggings.

Lee Hubilla

Oh my god, wait, I was gonna say like I can. I cannot wear body suits. Like I know they're cute and they're in like, I won't do it. I can't like like literally physically. I can't get myself into it. Because I then I am 14 Putting on a leotard being like yeah, help me.

Jessica Altchiler

I got rid of all of my leggings. I can Can't. And the only pair of jeans that I can wear are these really baggy jeans that have a lot of give and that kind of like flow over my legs. They're not hugging my legs too tightly. I can't do it. So that's the physical response from my body of all those years of feeling so trapped and stuck. And enclosed and restricted. Yeah. And we feel that way with clothes. And we feel that way with how we're going to train and study.

Lee Hubilla

Yeah, that's so interesting. The clothing piece because I feel like you know, and I stopped, like my formal lies, dance trainings. I can't do math. If we try. We'll sit here for five hours as I tried to do math. But a while. Yeah. Oh, why Oh, go. I do feel like I am literally like just this year, reentering a moment of discovery, like maybe the last few months, and this year, re navigating, like, form fitting clothes. Like, I mean, generally from like, a style perspective, like, I believe larger silhouettes volume, like I think that's so much more interesting. And that's just kind of the world that I like to play in fashion and style wise, that's I find that just like interesting, like, sculpturally or whatever, visually, but I yeah, have been exploring. I was like, Maybe I am like, but it's so funny that you say that because it's taken so long. Like I need it. And I'm similar with the hair. I'm sorry, you're having this question. I'm like, okay, like, I've, I've had some time to breathe and heal. And like, how much of this like baggy silhouette moment is personal choice style? And how much of is it also me kind of like hiding? And covering? And just being curious about that, you know, I'm just doing okay. And then it's like, what, like, what's, what's behind that? What, what else is there? Because so much about, like being seen as a lot of like, sort of like my personal growth work that I've been working on. And like the last year or so especially the last year, like taking a break, realizing like, oh, there's like a lot of stuff under the surface that I think needs to be like re looked at. And I feel like if the timing seems to be sort of synchronous, in that, it's like looking at that and coming back to these questions about how I'm perceived and how I'm seeing what's my choice? And what do I feel like is trauma response sounds strong, so not bad, but you know, like, a knee jerk reaction to like, an allergy to tight cloaks, let's say, you know, and so I'm starting to sort of like, peek back at those things. And I think what's important is that I really like okay, like, I think it's good that it took it takes as much time as it takes to heal and recover and navigate your especially like, an embodied experience, you know, like, it just takes time, and professional help. And I yeah, now I'm sort of, in a space of, like, exploring that and understanding and like, almost like, meeting my body again, you know, and, and appreciating it for like, what, what it is, in this moment, as it is, in this moment. Instead of I think what I did for a long time was just like, what if I just didn't have a body, and I'm just not gonna think about it. I'm just like, a floating head, with feelings and a mouth, you know, and like, there's a brain in there. But like, I'm not thinking about this body, I just like, can't, it just, it's just, it's so much. And then I think, because I realize to be an actor is to be a vessel. So be like, Okay, I think we got to spend some time with this body. If it's supposed to be a vessel for something, it's supposed to be a conduit or whatever, you know, a channel, if you will, for the story and the character and everything and the emotions, if I can't understand and be with and be present with, like my own embodied experience, then like, how much harder is it to then do that when it's outside of my personal experience and service of a story that I haven't necessarily lived or isn't my literal reality, you know? But it's taken all this time to get back there. Because the answer is amazing, but really, effed me up.

Jessica Altchiler

You just perfectly described where I am and where I have been for years at this point, which is from a lot of trauma, being so disconnected from my body, and then feeling so frustrated that I can't connect in a way that allows me to act and to sing in the way that I do. I know that I'm capable of without me and I know that I desire. But when you're cut off like that, fuck that's, it's literally impossible. So would you tell us more about that journey of coming back to your body? Oh

Lee Hubilla

my god, yes. I'm so pumped that this is what we're hearing. Because like, I feel like anyone who runs into me, I'm like, let me tell you about my somatic practitioner, literally, is because I was in an acting class. And I was like, I had, I was having a, and I felt like, I've come a long way. I've really grown. Just like, right, this is about, like, a few months before I decided I need to take a break. Because like, really hard things in my life started happening. And I was overwhelmed. And I kind of was like, Oh my God, there's some other stuff I got to deal with underneath. I was in an acting class. And I was doing some it was challenging and vulnerable and new and different. But, you know, at this point, I was like, I've done so much. It's okay, I'm I like to learn I'm here. But I just started having a very intense somatic experience that I was not in control of my throat started getting a little tight. I felt like I was choking a little, I was like, I am about to cry, why am I why would I cry. There's an item that my brain was like that you're, you're safe. These are all very nice people, you sign up for this. And I just I was like, Oh, my body is having its own experience. And then I couldn't have the experience that I was trying to have, which was like doing this exercise and trying to essentially connect i but my body was revolting. And I was like, Oh, my gosh, and I like went home and then and then I like sat down. And after that I just was like, Oh my God, what was that and it had happened in so long. And I really was I thought I was like I'm in I was like, This is my prime. This is my peak. This is the best I've ever been whatever, you know, it was like doing this like very, like more higher profile, like mentorship program. You know, I was like this. So how is this still happening to me? You know, I was like, What is going on? And I have a dear friend one of my like, best friends I've been friends with since back so we met like, right when I was like, I'm gonna be an actor. She through a friend of hers has been seeing this like somatic practitioner for a long time. And I was like, and I have been like, sort of vaguely hearing about like the work. And I've been in like talk therapy like, for so long. I'm like a professional talk therapy person I've been in it for since I was 16. Like, I thrive there, honestly. And I was like, and but that seems scared like body, you know, speaking of like, I don't want to think about my body didn't know. And I was like, you know, at some point, I think I'll be ready for that. And maybe I'll ask for her number. And like that week, I was like, Girl, it's now now's the time. I need her number because I was like I can't, I'm getting him I want this thing. So that and just like you said, like, I know what I'm capable of like, I I have all of these feelings and these experiences, and I am so vulnerable. I know that. But if I can't, I started to think like, oh, if I am not even processing my own stuff, how can I then pretend to be able to process someone else's stuff, I'm just going to keep getting in the way. Not that you need to, like empty yourself out of yourself to play a character. I don't know if I necessarily believe that. But I so I've been working with her for over a year now like a year last October. And it's unlike any other kinds of, again, professional talk therapists here and it was the opposite. And it was and like we talked I talked a lot about my history with dance and so much of this of so much of what came up is like I have just like my body's been conditioned to just be afraid. And like hyper ular and like hypervalent vigilance and all this stuff. And like in our set, like there's if there's talking to but there's just like embodied work, which is like actually like moving. Using like props is like a while there's a lot of like physical lysing feelings, which, you know, Yancey and I have talked about this also, especially if you're coming from a dance background, and which are very intense in terms of like getting notes, you know, and curing harsh feedback and like, you have to shut down what your body is crying out for it because you're like, No, no, no, buddy. We have to do it two more times. And then one. And then one more tonight. You know, you gotta be like we can't, I'm sorry, you're asking for this, but I can't give it to you. Or like you're being berated by a teacher or a director or something and you have to be like, hold it together. Don't feel anything. You can cry in the dressing room. Like it's like Don't cry in the studio. Not now. Can't do it. No, no emotional outburst is allowed. You know And so then now suddenly, I'm trying to be a person who can have a very private moment and public in front of other people, of course I can, for 15 years, I not 50, maybe like 70, or whatever, however many years, I was actively having to, like, be in control of my embodied emotional experience, because I was not allowed to express it. So of course, now, it would take time to be like, body are saying, It's okay. And let's just start with just like being present and like literally in your body, and acknowledge it and give it what it wants for ones. You know, it just was like, the slow process of just like reacquainting myself with my physical experience, and realizing like, Oh, my God, there's so much there. Like, in my, in my body, like emotionally, which is an incredible asset as a performer and an actor, but not if I can't access it, and not if I'm, if it's suppressed. And then that in doing this work almost in the last year, where I couldn't actively pursue acting as a job, but was pursuing it, what felt more like just a vocation of ha, oh, intense hobby, you know, because I'm just taking classes and doing some small projects with friends. That like, I was like, I actually am built for this. Like, I have all that emotional life there. And it's about now creating the technique and the, also like the hygiene around how to channel this and use it in a helpful way to serve a story. And I like, I owe it to myself, and maybe to other people, because like, what else are these feelings gonna do? I don't know, they're just there all the time. Like, maybe they could be of some use, you know. And I didn't learn that until I was able to have some somatic work in under my belt and some more embodied experiencing that. Really, kind of made everything click to have like, maybe why dance wasn't as fulfilling for me. And it felt like I was trying everything that is available to me as a dancer as far as like, pursuits and careers and jobs and stuff. And I just was like, when is it going to feel great. Like that, maybe if I try choreographing or maybe if I try teaching or maybe if I run a company or maybe dance for someone? No, I don't, you know, like just kind of those maybe it wasn't quite like fading, right. And now like, oh, it's because I you know, personally again, nothing against Dance Dance is amazing. We love dance. But it was I wasn't able to use this channel. At least in my experience of dance. Now I'm sure there are people who are, especially if you work at a Opera House in Europe, I'm sure you're doing a really great emotional channeling, you're doing interesting, challenging work over there. But what I was surrounded by and kind of the, the scene that I was in, I wasn't able to do that. And I feel like I found that when I started pursuing acting,

Jessica Altchiler

you're just hitting everything that is underneath all of my feelings and everything I'm trying to process in my life and also why I'm doing this podcast in the first place. Because I'm already learning so much. And I'm already inspired to take more action, just from however long we've been talking so far. And I want to talk about what you said where you're now creating, making acting this hobby. Because this is super fucking challenging. When you take something you love, and you turn it into a career, and we live in a capitalist world. And we live in a misogynist, racist homophobic patriarchy on top of it all. You're taking this, what should be and could be this beautifully embodied processing healing, inspirational joyful experience, and then you're packaging it up and selling it and trying to pay your rent with it. And that's something that we were able to feel with dance and And I remember feeling in my body that shifts of when it went from joy and expression and freedom to a job I was trying to have and a shape I was trying to make and a body that I was supposed to have, which I didn't have. And then we go okay, so now we're gonna go into acting and there is more room in a lot of ways to be fully you get there are still those boxes and limitations that exist. Yeah. And so how do you? How can someone hold on to the joy and hold on to that embodiment and empowerment and still exist in these different worlds? Whether it is dance or whether it's acting or anything else? And also, yeah, that's all I'm exhausted

Lee Hubilla

Yes, or what's I think it's interesting, right? I didn't realize that I was going to end up taking a break for like, a year, I thought that I was going, so I initially like, I'm gonna burn it all down, and I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get different representation. I'm gonna get, you know, because I came out of this like, mentorship program that is like, okay, okay, okay, here, we're career is gonna pop off. We're gonna do everything. Here we go, momentum, blah, blah, blah. And life was like, actually, no, sorry, it's not gonna happen, you're gonna have to do you have to take care of your family, you're gonna have to plan a wedding, you're gonna have to deal with your own health budget, you're gonna have to do all this other stuff instead. And also all your emotional work. I was like, Oh, okay. And suddenly, like, a month turned into two months, and then three months, and I just like, couldn't I, I couldn't do it. Like, I couldn't think as I could not think about acting as a career. Because it just would make me feel like I was behind. And I was stressed. It honestly was hard for me to like, engage with like, whatever, it seems like industry wise, so and so. And then I kind of like, okay, I am just taking a break. And then I actually like talked to a friend of mine. And they were like, okay, like, these big shifts are happening in your life. And they're doing a lot of, you know, stress and pain and grief and all of that. Like, what if you just let yourself take a break. And so I had this like that I gave myself this like deadline of like, September, September, I will check out my birthdays in September, Virgo. And then I'm going to check in with myself and be like, how are we feeling now? And then I might have like, I need a few more months or whatever. So suddenly, I was like, okay, September. Now, I'm just, I am not going to think about acting as a career. Or even as a hot like, what, let's see what comes up if I just like, I'm dealing with other things. And then in that, and then also knowing, like, knowing what would trigger me like, okay, don't be on one social media, we say goodbye to social media, not literally goodbye, like, I'm still on there, you can find me, please find me and follow. But I won't be updating regularly. Sorry. And also not sorry, because I just was like, I can't be there because it's just not healthy for me with all the stuff that I was dealing with. And so I then was like, what are the things because literally, I was so stressed dealing with stuff with my family caregiving and that I say planning wedding because wow, well, let me tell you, I'm planning a wedding will really take it out here. And health is all these other things I mentioned before, it was like when I did have some time to like, relax or like consumed some sort of like anything. Like it had to be something that would make me feel good. All I wanted was to feel good when I was feeling bad and like most of my life because of what I was dealing with. So I you know, was like why I'm always watching a lot of movies big TCM fan. But so I started engaging with the art form, as like you said, like a hobbyist, just like a, like an enthusiast. So watching lots of movies and be like, Wow, and then it didn't feel like I was like, I should also like not current movies, because like I can't, I'm not going to I should have been in this, or I wish I was in this. Or I want to be in stuff like that and lodging some like black and white screwball comedy from the 40s I'm not feeling I wish I was in this. I'm just like, how great is this? How fun? How interesting. Do these people look? So weird? You know, I was like, these aren't these are not conventional beauty standards of 2020s. And it was refreshing. And so there was engaging with the art form in a way that felt back to sort of basics, which was like, What do I even enjoy? And I'm just enjoying as a viewer or participant, not like a creator of it, like in the process, you know? Then also part of them. What I said before is like, based off of like personal connections, my trainings very sort of like hobbled together. So I I had like, signed up for an acting class in July that I kind of was like I can't or think there was like two acting classes I signed up for. And they use them as also, like, sort of like goalposts or check in moments of like, I'm going to do this class, and then I can check in of like, does it suck to do it? Do I hate it, then, you know, and then like, it was a class that's not focused on. Again, kind of like a hobbyist mentality. It's like a scene study class, like, No, we're not talking about auditions. We're not talking about headshots, and reps, like none of the business industry stuff, like strictly just like craft, craft, and we got to be an academic MoGraph. Here we are. But you know, like, just about, like, what makes this fun, what makes a story engage, you know, like, and a lot of people were in the class like, are all people who like, are not super active in like, the industry, always, you know, because they have like full time jobs or whatever, you know, but everyone is there, because they're engaged in like the art form in this particular way. And they know that we're here for this amount of time to talk about the art of acting, the act of acting, not the business of acting, and how to get ahead, you know, which I feel like a lot of classes are marketed to, and I just couldn't engage in that. And so I had two of those happen over the course of my year break. And every time I did it, I was like, for this hour, an hour, there's like four hour, three hours, how long because that I sit in this room on an uncomfortable chair, I'm in heaven, I'm not thinking about anything else outside of that door. I'm so focused, I'm so attentive, I suddenly have all this energy that I don't have outside of class, and I am present and I am like, lit up and I like just want to do more. And then I do that. And then outside of that, again, I'm not not reading, you know, the trades, I'm not thinking about anything business related. And I do another one. And so and so for that, it was always that and then I just kept checking in with myself. And then also we cannot ignore alongside of this doing a lot of like, therapy, the somatic therapy kind of work to engage with, like, you know, in the back around, I have a little you know, I've got the worrying stress machine about like, but what about the career, I guess you're taking a break? It's okay, would stay back there while we like focus on these it's backburner for a reason, you know. And so it's sort of taking all that time of just engaging with it in that enthusiastic way. And, and doing a lot of like, personal emotional work, a lot of crying. A lot of crying, good amount of screaming and hitting. And I had a lot of talking about my feelings to anyone who would fucking listen. Because because I just was working through them, you know, and I think when you go through a tough a rough patch of your life, it puts things into perspective. And when I say rough patch, again, it was a highs and lows, like really intense, like diagnosis in my family and caregiving and then also like, I got married, which was incredible, but also very stressful. But so when like these like actual like life outside of like, the business, real life, things happen that mattered to you. It helps me put everything in perspective. And, you know, I was okay with it. Like maybe I don't want to go back. I don't know. Maybe I just want to get a what Yancey calls a muggle job and like, just take acting class at night. I don't know, you know, and then I gave myself some time and then literally, I mean, like, first month of this year was like, Okay, we're gonna do this. Like now we're gonna we're gonna get back into the thing and now I feel like I can and I feel like I want to and I also am no no I'm not like I'm going to work as hard and as fast as I can and they want to do like make get myself back to you know actively pursuing the acting as a job and a career and not just like a passion but I think that year was so vital. And I didn't know it was going to be here but I was going to be shorter and then somehow it also might be longer in terms of like what looks like a brick to summit like no no who's knows what it looked what what a break really looks like, except for those of us who are in it. So that's what that was like for me as far as like that speaking on like, turning a career thing into more of like a a passion thing, slash hobby and I think it's I think it's, it's important to check to check in. I am like, part of when I knew I was like, oh, I need to take a break over a year ago because I was like getting auditions And it was the last thing I wanted to do. I was like, I would get an email. I'm like, I can't, I don't want to do anything with this really, like, you know, I was in the thick of it with like family stuff too. So it just seems so trivial, not important. And that sounds like, Okay, now we need to take a break, because the thing that we have wanted for so long and we loved and other people would be like, that is where I aspire to, you're there and you're like, I can't be bothered. So I felt like we needed a little check in. And we did. And then then I didn't realize that that checking would be as fruitful as it was, in terms of what I would get out of it. I'm still like, wow, even like talking about it. I'm like, Oh, wow, oh,

Jessica Altchiler

wow. Well, that's also the key to having a holistic life for yourself, and one that isn't going to be defined by your jobs, where your worthiness and your value and your happiness isn't just dependent on the job. And also, it's very easy to be swept away by what your dream is, or what you think your dream is, or what other people are telling you that you should be wanting. And we have that at a very young age, like when you're young, and you dance, and then all of a sudden, we're pre professional, and all of a sudden, we're going to college. And it kind of just goes and goes and goes. And we're not given a second to pause and say, Hey, is this even what I really want? anymore? Or was it ever. And so the fact that you could take a pause and say, I'm not going to do this anymore, because I need to human, I need to live and process and be as a human being. And then when you come back to it, you know that it's what you want to be doing that you weren't just swept away into it by being good at something or having an opportunity to do something or just because you've done something for so long. And now that you're back in it, you can say, Oh, wait, I took a break. And it didn't destroy me. I'm back because I want to be back. And if I need to take another break. I know I can because I did it. And again, here I am today. Yeah. Yeah. So what does it feel like to be back? And also, what does it mean, to be back?

Lee Hubilla

It feels scary, to be back. Put that out there, it feels scary, feels invigorating and exciting. It feels a little overwhelming to feel like I am now like react on the fuel and the drive and the passion. And like, how do we use that now? You know, it's like how do I Where does that go? But I have I'm like doing a lot of like strategy and talking to you and like whatever, you know, but I so it's how to, like harness this. So I don't like blow it all up and burn out. Right? And be like, forget it. You know, it's like how do we also pace ourselves now that we're back in a way that still feels like, sustainable and healthy. So then now in like three months, I'm like, forget it. I tried it again. And then I hate it again. So it feels that's what it feels like. She's asked what it looks like.

Jessica Altchiler

Yeah, what is it? How has your life changed since being back and you have quote back reps? I don't know.

Lee Hubilla

I don't but if you're listening your reps, please email me because I'm looking for you. I do. So I love it. I'm saying I am back. But I'm not really back. But I'm like, I'm back in that, like, I'm ready to be back. And now I have to go like find new reps and navigate that whole situation which is like, is demoralizing. Honestly, it's not literally but like it can be and it's very, it's very hard. So we know what it's like and what it's looking like is that's where I'm at now is I'm like on this sort of hunt, search, talking to everybody everywhere, all at once about the fact that I'm looking for new reps and hoping that like that gets like, back to me somehow that reaches someone who is a good fit and will find me but also that's like doing all the things that I couldn't do before because I didn't know why I would do them which is like, you know, emailing gathering materials, all these kinds of things. asking people for help is like a big thing. And because we we get nowhere alone, especially as an actor, because you literally be if you act alone in a room by yourself, are you acting through like tree, the forest sort of thing? You know, like, part of it is like, which is why I like it. It's everything. It's a collaborative effort. You don't do it alone. So, and it's hard, you know, it's hard to ask for help. Oh, it's scary and it's vulnerable. But that that's what it looks like, as well as also maintaining the thing that I've learned from my break, where it was just more of like a passion slash hobby, which is that I need to be actively engaging with it regularly. So I can remember why I'm doing that. And for me, that's being in like, a good class that feeds me, not like maybe like, the smartest, most strategic class, but just like teachers that I already know, or people I've worked with, or people that are again, recommended by people that I trust and who have been in other environments that I've liked. And they've been like, this is also a good environment, like, trying by like trying and finding ways of, of continuing to engage in those spaces, so that I can continue to feel and remember that this is something that I want to do. And I feel like I need to do. And it's important that I like, put up with all the other bullshit, because I spent all this time figuring out and we we do feel like it is something that I am meant to do in some capacity. But also balancing that out with the rest of my life, the human experience, there it is, you know, like, it's not just from every day, we wake up, and we're thinking about this one thing, and we're like, going so hard, it's like, no way, like, have time to do that. And also, I need to like, take care of my body, I need to go to somatic therapy every week and got a you know, this, I'm still navigating, you know, caregiving family stuff, I am taking care of my home, I am thinking about the future, like, you know, there's so as all these other things that are all happening at the same time, and it's about finding balance and trying different ways of finding that balance of like, what is what does the day look like when you try to break it down in a way of like having, as we all do just so many like balls that we're juggling that are in the air? And it's like, how do we divide our focus and our energy and a time and our time in a way that feels doable? You know, I'd love to hear about

Jessica Altchiler

your relationship with writing and how that started for you. And I just want to mention that I started writing because I studied abroad, and I started taking notes about what I experienced because I wanted to remember it, I knew I had a terrible memory. And then it evolved into more like essay based passages. And then it evolved into poetry and ideas for my TV show like scenes and skits and all of that stuff. And it kind of just came and a lot of people talk to me about how they know they should journal, but they don't know how. And they're, they're not writers. And I was like I what it just happened. Like it just fucking happened. I never in my life thought of myself as a writer until recently, and it just evolved. And also I know for me, I'm someone who, because of this thing that we've been talking about with structure and control and the lack of embodiment, and a lack of empowerment, writing was always something that I thought, okay, but if I can make a show, or if I can write this thing, or if I can make this podcast, whatever it is creating in some way, then I have the power over it. And I can make it what I want it to be I can create an atmosphere, whether it's on a zoom in a podcast, or one day, hopefully a TV show where like, I was always like, I'm gonna have a therapist on set, I'm gonna have meditation classes, you know, like just fully thinking about the whole picture. And anyway, so I'd love to talk to other writers, especially if it kind of came up naturally or later in life or whatever it was. Yeah,

Lee Hubilla

I similar I, you know, hadn't planned on identifying as a writer had that been part of my, like, multi hyphenate experience. And my writing really just sort of a lot. Same with my art, it just sort of like I fumbled my way. And it was like we're here and it's happening. You know, my first same thing with like, creating and making and producing my own work. Also didn't really plan on that. But like my really good friends. We like signed up to do like a 72 hour film lab shoot out. It's called the 72 hour shoot out with Asian American film lab. Verify, I think they still they're still still still doing it every year. So you make a short film in 72 hours, which is insane. And it's very much like you just got to work because what you got and we just wanted to do it. And so when we found people to film lower down like Friend, friend, yeah, so one of the guys was like a friend of mine, oddly enough through dance, and he's a dancer himself and takes like, we did a lot of like videography of dancing and that's sort of what got him into this line. of work of making short films and music videos and stuff. And we were like, Okay, I guess we'll just figure it out. And then like, okay, so then we can't, like, like, we have to write it, then, like, you get a prompt, like, Thursday night or something. And then like, you gotta write something and shoot it Friday and turn it in Sunday evening. So we're like, I guess we're gonna have to write it. And my one friend who was the other actor, and like, producer and like writer in it, she has ran like, you know, she like, got like a journalism degrees, that's creative writing classes, she think she's never done, since you did like some sketch writing classes that you see, like all this kind of, you know, it was part of her identity and experience, but not mine. But, so but then I was there. So I was part of it, we were writing it together, because we're all going to do it. And like, it gets done faster and easier for all in it. So somehow, you know, now I'm like, I'm a producer. I'm like scouting locations. I'm like, scheduling a shoot, we got a friend of mine, who was like, a documentary producer did like to be the director for it. And I met through some other project. Men, like we're like writing and then we're improvising. We make this you know, we just, it's just such a crazy thing to just happen. And part of it was that, like, it's just going to make us do it. Because like, what will you know, you need sometimes you just need a pressurized situation that just makes you do the version that you can do not the version you want to do or you think would be the best. It's just the one that happens, because it's the one that you can make in that time under those extreme constraints. And ended up being slick, right? It's one of the best things I've ever made, even to this day, honestly. And it says, It's so crazy. It's so weird, because you don't have time, like second guess anything, you're just like, sure, yeah, it's gonna be a girl drinks, real milk instead of almond milk. And then she goes crazy, you know, cuz she's lactose intolerant. I don't know, you know, like, it's just gonna be that because that's something we can shoot in my apartment. And it doesn't go anywhere else. And it involves just us, like, how, what's the situation we can create. And then like, was like, top 10 films that year, and that festivals, like seven or something, I was like, Whoa, blown away. And so then we did it again the next year. And then and so then that time in that in that one, I also co wrote it, but then I was like, direct, I was directing it, just because I was like, I'm the one that is here, you know, like we you know, that can do this crazy time commitment. And as I directed it, I co directed because I was also in it. So me and the other guys who were filming it, like they basically we all directed it together because it just was like we're doing this so fast. And like that also was like a really cool experience. And then I was after at some point then like I was also in like the comedy improv scene, because that's how I like cobbled together and affordable acting education. I was like, I know, everyone goes to like, you know, like Esper, or all these places. And I was like, I also like, want to study comedy. Because I like that. Whatever. I think that's what someone told me you do you take improv. So I did. It was expensive. So I was like, what if I am an intern, and then I just like go through the whole comedy improv thing. And then just like, learn how to act, because I'm just like listening and responding. So then that got me introduced, like, sort of sketch stuff. Then I started like being in some sketches. And then I took a sketch writing class. And then, because I was like, This is really fun. Also, just because like, that's what everyone does. Everyone's improvising, everyone's writing sketches. So like, I'll do that too. And I could take it for pretty cheap or more affordable, because I'm interning at the theater, shout out to the magnet theater. It's amazing. And I, then I like, then I was at an audition for a house sketch team at the pit, which is another Comedy Theater in New York. And again, not something that I thought I was doing, I was gonna do, but like my friend was doing it, someone who I made all those films with and I just, I was like, Oh, you're on a schedule. So I can like, write a little bit like, I want to, like, perform. And I was like, it's like we get to perform every week. So you audition by like, they read your reading sketches and you're acting them out kind of like a cold read situation. And then But then if you get a call back, you have to create like a short performance and like solo and do it for everybody. And so I was like, once again, here I am having to write something and create something and perform it and like it's like it was like the night before you found out if you got a call back and I was like, oh god. Okay, like what can we do? And again, it to this day, I think it's the best thing I've made me one of the best things I've ever made under those crazy constraints. It is me doing a bad contemporary. Can I say to Ernest urban contemporary dance too. It's all coming back to me now by Celine Dion, about a girl who has given up eating bread. But then pita bread comes with her seamless order and she doesn't know what to do. So just like me dancing with pita bread, like this is what all that ballet training was. And so so I like going into these details because the situations are so crazy and weird. And they just like, again, I just sort of forced me to do it. And to try and as like, I wasn't like I have to be on the you know, I kind of just didn't even know if I get a call, I kind of thought it would be nice, but I was like, oh, Mauer here. And then I was on the sketch team. And then I was having to write and pitch every week, and act. And I was like, I don't even know if I I don't even think I want to be on a sketch team. Because I don't want to be on SNL or be an SNL writer, a lot of people who were there do wanted art that is an aspiration of theirs. I was like, kind of I don't know, really. But I was there and I you have to pitch every week. And then I ended up in just if you're you pitch people like your director, like the idea, like I guess I have to write it. So that I actually end up getting a bunch of sketches. So like, then I'm like, I'll go now and what I'm actually writing, I'm like, putting up these sketches and performing them for our audience. And I'm like, Oh, geez. And, and then out of that, again, through all of that, then I started meeting people, meeting other actors meeting other writers. And so then people like, oh, we should work on something. Let's collaborate on something like suddenly I'm writing a TV show, or a web series. Suddenly, I'm writing another TV show. And suddenly I'm we're shooting a proof of concept. And like, suddenly, we're writing another pilot. And now we're, we got this, like, we're in this paid writing like inaugural incubator program for the TV show that we like, are pitching. And suddenly we're pitching and like, how did I get here, this is crazy. But also all that to say, after I finished that, like this, like, accelerator lab thing I did with with someone else about this TV show that we were working on for a while, I similarly, that was also a really like a very trying experience. I have been lucky in my acting career to have a few like to sort of like, formalized, like, experiences like mentorship or like writing lab or something. And they're very, I feel very lucky to have had them and and like I met really like amazing people, which is what those things are really there for, you know, like, really, you're there because you want to create a community and connect with other people. And that's the most important thing. But I found myself a little bit like, bucking against the like, the idea that like this name is really important. And it'll get me something concrete. And then that just felt like my old like, dance, like we were talking about, like, I'm at this institution, I have this name on my resume. This person said I was good, that will fix everything, right? And it's like, no, no. Well, that's not what it's supposed to do. So I suddenly was writing I've, well, you know, taking a break, because I just was like, that was a really intense heart. And I ended and I'm still in that moment, actually, like, stepping back and, and being like, as a writer, I think I have a lot to say, I think I have a pretty clear, strong voice. But like, what do I want? You know, you know, why am I doing this? It's so hard to be anything, you know, to be an actor to be a writer. But again, like, Why do I want to do it? What do I want to say? How they want to engage with this? Talent, I guess you could call it or this like, way of expressing myself, that seems to have gotten me some opportunities in the past? Like, how do I want to if I, if I have to choose, you know, if I'm not being thrown into these situations now, like, what what say, Well, I have in the journey. And for the last year, actually, while I was not writing, like narrative stuff for like creating film, or television or internet, whatever content, if you will, I started doing some like freelance writing for an online publication. So then it was like work. And then it was interesting, too. And then I then then it was like, within that, but then I also became almost like more of a writer, because then I was getting paid to be a writer, but I wasn't writing in the way that like, it's how I would really want to write and would serve my like, other like bigger sort of aspirations. Yeah, so that's, that's the writing journey. It's long, it's windy, it's weird. And it's I don't know where it is right now. I'm like, I'm at a moment where now I'm going to try and re engage with it. And most importantly, I want it to be like the acting like something I'm passionate about also, because it's so hard. I have friends who are like who are writers, writer, actors, writers, directors, and they're successful and they're working. And I just, I know how hard it is to make it work. How hard it is to make things and so like Can't just not really believe in the thing that I'm making. I'm sorry, like, I before I was like, I don't know what I have to say, but I guess it has to do with lactose intolerance or pita bread or whatever. And that was fine, you know, but now it's like, okay, but like, if you're gonna write a short, you know, it's gonna be, it's gonna take a lot of effort. And it's not something you make in like, 72 hours, right? If it's something like you're gonna get funding for, you're gonna hire people, you're gonna pay people like, what do you have to say? Like, what are you talking about. And similarly, I think all the emotional work of the last year of me going through what I went through, and like, digging through, like old past things, and like, childhood things, and like, all the psychological like, fucking goop in here, that affects everything we do, and is, I think, the fuel for what we do as artists. Like, you gotta, like, I gotta had to work through that. And working through that, so that I can feel like what I have to say is something I believe in and want to put all that effort in, because it's just not. And I gotta, you know, I'm saying all this an offline want to be aware of, like, the perfectionist in the room, points to self, there's like, but then it's got to be perfect, and it's going to be amazing. So I understand that there's a line of like, I gotta believe in and I gotta want to, because I know people who work so hard, and for me, like, I'm a writer, I create my own work, it's like, okay, but like, care about it. And like, in respect to those people who I know who work so hard at it, I want to respect the art form and the form just like same thing with acting. You know, like, when I say I'm pursuing a career as an actor, I, it's so hard to be an actor. I gotta really mean it. Like, if I could choose something else, like, why wouldn't I? You know, so. But I'm here, because I can't choose something else, it feels like the thing I'm supposed to do. And yeah, I'm interested to see how this how the writing, journey continues to evolve. I think I am getting closer to a place where I like want to make things. I want to write things that can be like, produced in some way, whether that's like, on a stage or for screen or something. And I think that's just because there's just a lot of I just had my, my tank feels more full than it has in a long time. So I feel like I can be open to being like, Yeah, I think I'll explore that. And not crush under the pressure of like, making it mean something else. We'll see what it is. Yes. Okay. A couple of things.

Jessica Altchiler

One, I think so you said, you know, what, if there was something else I could do, I would write like, as in terms of acting, and writing. And I think that's something that, as performers we hear all the time, specifically, when I started acting, I heard that a lot. Like, if there's anything else in the world, you can do do it because this is hard. And, and I get it, I get it. But it's also okay, if you just want to do it. If there's someone out there, who maybe there is another job that they think they could see themselves doing. But they do want to try this. That's okay, too. I just, that's a phrase that I think is so constantly infiltrated into our brains. Yeah. And the other thing that relates to it is saying that you respect writers and actors so much, and so you want to like, you know, work hard yourself. So be like, hey, if I'm going to be trying to be working amongst you guys, I want to show you all the work that I'm putting in and the respect I have for you and everything. And I don't mean to be just disagreeing with everything you say, I just think that I want to point out a moment of potential is in this conversation, which is that also it's okay if you want to be an actor, and you also are worried about what your mental health is going to be like. And so you are tiptoeing a little bit, or maybe you do just have a different relationship with these crafts. And you do want to do them for like, a quarter of your time instead of full time or whatever it is, I think there are so many ways that we can develop healthy relationships with things that we're working on and our points of expression and our the way that we express things. And I'm really just saying both of these things to myself too, because I'm having to get it out of my own head. And I think a lot of us hear this stuff all the time. But just to catch any phrase that feels limiting. Again, it's the hair cut, it's the tight thing that feels remotely too structured or restrictive, I immediately try to rebel against and challenge it So I just want to point those two things out. But I also think your story about your evolution of the writing is so beautiful. And I love how, with everything you're talking about, there's a sense of following your intuition, and as into a career into a job and into a craft. And it's also added those things at times, and, but the root of it is, is coming home to your body and being able to listen and follow through and know that you deserve to follow through and that you're capable of following through whatever that looks like.

Lee Hubilla

Yeah. And I do want to say, with my thank you, thank you for staying with us. Because I need to hear things about like, wait, no, you don't have to go like on all cylinders. And I think part of that is like, if you could do anything else do I think it's the word do in that sentence. It's like, not like to act you could, you can like it like I was acting all last year, I wasn't pursuing a career in the business of acting. I don't think everybody needs to, wants to, nor should saturated industry. But so like the word do, there is weird. You know, like, because I was more engaged in the art and probably doing my best work as an actor as I've ever done. The last year and a half or so when I was less involved in the actual business of acting. And so like you said, people should be encouraged to engage with the art at any level, and any level of commitment and interest to you, because that's the gifts of art of participating in it of like, being able to create something, you know, like, that is really important. So I thank you for saying that. Because I think that we're do is weird, it has a connotation, we're really like, we get to decide what do means, you know, not someone else. And like, if you can do anything like well, what does do me lino like, Hold on, let it's you know, and so, when I think about and now if I could do anything else, it I think more of like, devoting a majority of my time and energy and resources into ensuring that I get to do it as much as possible, because it gives me something there is. And I'm like, oh, and I did not know that. Till now. I didn't know that was before just like, got to book a job. That is being an actor. And that's not I mean, you know, that's part of it. You know, and similar to what you said, about what was the other thing that you said, Oh, respecting, whatever, like, I have some Yeah. And I, thank you for saying that again. Because again, I'd be like, it's not I because I have to buck against my own perfectionist. demon inside of me, I'll say it's a demon, you know, of like, gotta work hard, gotta be the best, fastest, strongest, first, whatever. And acknowledge that really, I think the base of that sentiment, what, for me, for me, is I don't want to make myself suffer through something that I don't care about. So these people care enough about it to do all this stuff. And again, what I'm doing will look different, but I'm like, and, you know, and how some of his like, I don't want to have to do that because I don't whatever you know, are just like, acknowledging my own threshold for suffer and tolerance for certain things of like, what's required, quote, unquote, required and I don't think that's a that's not a blanket statement of everybody. But like, what some people are, like, I did this start working as a writer and I'm like, Well, I don't know, that's really required. I don't know if I can I want to do that. So I'm gonna sit here I'm gonna think about it I'm going to consider because I don't want to compromise on something some I understand compromise is very important. But there are certain ideals and things that I don't want to compromise on and I've learned that this point in my life what is really important to me, so that is going to dictate how you know or like an example as far as like actors, right? Like i i respect singing and singers so much, me incredibly somehow Filipino not a singer. Not a singer can't be I probably could take lessons which is a thing I'm exploring for my own enjoyment for like because I want to enjoy the act of singing and also as an actor just the voice is a tool and coming from a dancer where you're seeing not heard that's always been a really like sore spot for me. It's like my boys. It's very like Ariel Little Mermaid, you know? Like, I'm just letting you know in a shell broad or not exist.

Jessica Altchiler

No one can hear me

Lee Hubilla

I, you know, but I, and I have lots of friends who aren't singers. And like, you know, you're also one of the people who are pursuing musical theater. You know, I understand what goes into that. And I just don't have, I don't have the passion for it. I don't have the passion for the medium of musical theater. And I've had people tried to tell me that I should pursue musical theater. Because I'm a dancer, I was a dancer, and can dance and I am an actor. And I could learn to sing. I was like, No, I know people who like really do that, do it for a living, thrive in the form and the medium. Want to do it, there's so many people who want to do that. I'm not one of them. So I'm not just going to do it. Because it seems like it makes sense in quotes. And it could be an opportunity to look, and it lives the life of an actor more, because I check some of the boxes, I check more than one, you know, no, because I was I have respect for the medium and the form and the people I know around me who are hustling and working hard, and also the ones who aren't hustling the people who just like it, and just enjoy it. And I respect their opinion. And I respect my opinion enough to be like, I don't know if I love it. I love every musical albums. I just I love a really love some musicals. Sometimes I feel like I'm you know, theater and musical theater sometimes is a little lost on me. Because I just have a personal connection to like film, and film and television, just from like my childhood upbringing. Yeah, it's just a personal experience. I'd like a lot of a lot of nostalgia wrapped up in that. So that's that for me. So why would I just be like, oh, you know what? I'm going to try and be on Broadway, because I just don't have anything else I'm working on right now. And I'm like, Oh, don't do that. I just feel like that's mostly you know, what, actually, it's not that I'm saying this out loud. It's like, yes, it's disrespectful to other people in the room, or people who could be in the room. And now we're not in the room, because you are off of like a whim. It's mostly disrespectful to yourself. Because the things that you really want, and that let you up and are excited those things matter. And you're like belittling your own desires and your own, like you said, your own intuition, your own knowing and your body of like, I don't really want to do this. This doesn't light me up. This isn't really the thing for me, I feel like I should, but for some reason, I just don't. And it brings us back to that. That place where we both had that experience with dance, what was like, our danced, capital D dance, but just like, our experiences of dance and our lives being like, this isn't quite all that I wanted it to be or what all that I want right now for myself. I mean, listen to that voice and honor yourself being like, it's fine. It's okay, if I don't know if I if I go out and I do. The thing that does make me feel like that. I think it's also okay to go out and not do anything until you and explore a bunch of things until you find a thing that is like, I think some people are like, I can't jump out this ship that's in motion, when I don't have another ship to jump into. It's like how to tread water for a while, it'd be scary. But like you could do it, you know, there's a little bit of that mentality of like, but this seems to be working, I got to just like stay in it, you know, because then I'll be left behind. And it's also,

Jessica Altchiler

it's so easy to forget that a lot of people who are in these positions and jobs that seem incredible from the outside are fucking miserable sometimes. And it's just so easy to be like, Oh, that person is in this role. And that's so amazing. And it's for them. And you don't know what's going on. That is, again, a huge reason. I started this podcast, because I just think that the more we're all showing our messiness and our processing in the moment and what we're struggling with and what we're working on and what didn't work and what we're curious about and also making statements that maybe one day, don't, like, aren't still true for us all of these things. I think it'll make it. It'll make it so much easier for us to process our own experiences and also get clear about what we want, and also be able to better support each other along the way. Yeah. Okay, well, oh, wait, shoot, I have to ask you one more question. I just realized, because I usually start off asking people what their human bio is, but we dove right in with our hair Crusher did so now I'm going to ask you, what is your human bio? So your bio that exists off of your resume

Lee Hubilla

says with that that's so funny. I actually had to write something like this recently for a class an acting class actually, but my use the opportunity to write about myself and describe it have like, sans anything, like achievement, like, vibes only was like this is my description. So my human bio, wow. Oh my god, I love that, like I have to just like, do it. Yeah, because if I was writing it I'd been like

Jessica Altchiler

editing it for like five hours. And you have to feel Yeah,

Lee Hubilla

um, you know, I'm a small girl with a short haircut and a lot of feelings. Strike that I'm a small woman, not a girl anymore. I am a small woman with a short haircut and a lot of feelings. And I think everything is funny. And I think everything is also sad. So that's an interesting experience for me. As a human. I love spending time with my like, My people like my dear friends, and family and loved ones. That's like not a thing that would have been in my human bio, probably like, three years ago. But now it's like a big, big part of me as like, I gotta like, be with my people laughing making jokes, acting weird, crazy. giggling like, kicking all of that. It's like so important. I have been told that I'm stylish, which was fun. About more. So I like, I dress a little crazy. And it's so fun for me. I think that's part of my human bio, for sure. And I really love watching and talking about old movies. That's like, a big thing in my human experience. I'm a daughter. I'm a wife. I am a friend. I am Bossy, Bossy. I've went when my love language is feedback. I love to give people my thoughts. They don't have to take them but I love to give advice and receive advice. And I think the medium in which I thrive the most is not film or television or theater. I think it's really voice notes. That's where I thrive. So I love a voice now so important to me. Yancey knows this. We're big voice Noters Yeah, I think that's I think that's me as a human. Right. So Rob, I love it. Like, throwing things.

Jessica Altchiler

Yeah. Embracing the messy. Yeah. Actually on Nancy's podcast episode. Like I hadn't officially named it yet. And I had told her that one idea was messy.

Lee Hubilla

No, I heard that. I was like, Wait, that's okay. That is really cute. I

Jessica Altchiler

thought it was like too much about me when I want to really?

Lee Hubilla

Or maybe it's like messy with Jesse. No, it's not about like, I'm messy. Jesse. It's like we get messy with Jesse. And that's great.

Jessica Altchiler

That's that's a good point. I like that. Maybe that's a new tagline or something. Ah, yeah. I have been thinking about this name, too. And everything's ever evolving. Yeah. That's

Lee Hubilla

you can Yeah, change anything. And it's like a never existed. Everyone's different or whatever. But I do think like what you said when you're like, I do like the add pops that like the messy. Yeah, I think that's the beauty of what you what, at least what at least what happened here. Like I really was like, I don't know what we're talking about. I guess we can talk about. I feel like I feel like I'm wanting to talk about dads now. Fucking Yeah. Because that's where we relate. But all the other stuff. I was like, wow, you know, like, and that is just, yeah, I'm trying to embrace the mess more. Because that's where all the good stuff is. Also, we're all like, the like, stuff hurts more there. But like, but it's, but it's good. And I'm like, I'm having some moments in my life where I'm like, feeling a little messy and like unhinged is too strong, but not far off. You know, I'm just like, I don't know what is going on here. What is happening? But and then I you know, I've been I'm like, but I'm just being in a human. I'm having a human flawed experience. And isn't that great? Because isn't that just like what I want to do for a living, I'll be able to pay me to have those human flight experiences and enjoy them. So isn't how I think I should have some of my own. So I know what that's like.

Jessica Altchiler

Yeah, I think that there's so much of pain and suffering that is just added on to the experience itself, like the pressure and the guilt that we feel for experiencing this thing that we're experiencing. It's like an additional layer, like I'm going through this thing. And now I feel ashamed that I'm feeling this way. And it just cycles like that. So if you can say, hey, yeah, it's like really normal to be feeling this messy and to be down in this way or navigating my mental health in this way, or my physical health or my career or my relationships or what the world what is going on in the world.

Lee Hubilla

God forbid we understand that they're there.

Jessica Altchiler

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Okay, well, I'm gonna wrap up. Thank you so much for doing this. I'm so happy that we just dove right in and started off with our hair. Yeah,

Lee Hubilla

that is like, I'm like, oh, that's me. I might go to like turn a haircut into like, a conversation about my existence and like, the meaning of life. That's

Jessica Altchiler

why we're here. Well, thank you so much. We'll keep talking. I love hearing all of the peaks and valleys of everything that you're experiencing. And I hope you know I'm always here to talk and to process and I'm up messy. Wijesinghe be messy with Jessie.

Lee Hubilla

That's like once like that's like the like, the shoot off of this thing when someone like wants to pay you for like a, like a radio show. Message. I say go some slop. Hello,

Jessica Altchiler

everybody, and welcome to be messy with Jessie. I'm your host SCGS.

Lee Hubilla

And today our mess is and then everything the worst in the world. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Well, thank you. We'll talk thank you so much for having me. This was a blast.

Jessica Altchiler

I thank you so much for listening to the story project. It is a dream come true to get to share these stories with you. And I'm so grateful for every single guests and audience member if you're enjoying the podcast, it would be such a great help if you could do a couple things. First is to follow the podcast on Spotify or Apple podcasts wherever you listen. The next would be to rate five stars and also give us a review. And finally, share any episodes that you'd like with the people that you love. This is a podcast for the community. And the hope is that it can reach as many people as possible from the bottom of my heart. Thank you for being here. Until next time,