Building Your Creative Life with Ramita Ravi
Show Notes
Ramita Ravi is a startup founder and artist. She is a professional dancer, choreographer, and educator with Bloc Talent Agency NY/LA. As a dancer, she’s worked on John Oliver and NYFW, and was one of the first South Asian dancers on So You Think You Can Dance and in the Radio City Christmas Spectacular. Ramita’s choreography credits include Coachella, Miss America, and Lincoln Center. She is the co-founder of Artswrk - a tech platform that connects artists with flexible work. She is passionate about representation, equity, and innovation in the arts.
In today’s episode, Ramita discusses the empowerment that comes with being a multi-hyphenate artist and entrepreneur, the importance of exploring multiple avenues of both employment and fulfillment, and how the company she built aims to disrupt the financial struggles that artist’s face.
She also shares what it means to be one of the first South Asian artists performing and choreographing in multiple spaces, the most empowering choreographers and directors she’s worked with, and what she’s most interested in diving into next.
Follow along on Ramita’s journey: @ramita.ravi
Transcript
Jessica Altchiler
Hello and welcome to the story of project. I'm your host, Jessica Altchiler and today's guest is Ramita Ravi, a startup founder and artist. She is a professional dancer, choreographer, and educator with block talent agency in New York and LA. As a dancer. She's worked on projects like John Oliver New York Fashion Week, and was one of the first South Asians on site You Think You Can Dance and the Radio City Christmas Spectacular. Repeat this choreography credits include Coachella Miss America, and Lincoln Center. She's also on faculty with various conventions and competitions. For mica is the co founder of arts. We're a tech platform that connects artists with flexible work. She is passionate about representation, equity and innovation in the arts. In today's episode Remita discusses the empowerment that comes with being a multi hyphenate artist and entrepreneur, the importance of exploring multiple avenues of both employment and fulfillment, and how the company she built aims to disrupt the financial struggles that artists face. Here is Ramita Ravi. Oh, okay. Hello, Rami. I'm so happy to have you on the story.
Ramita Ravi
I'm so excited. I'm so proud of you for starting this. It's like, Aw,
Jessica Altchiler
thank you. Yeah. So we met this past summer. And it was like, very quick connection, I would say. So. I met Rami because, like of the many wonderful things that she does, she created co created a company called Arts work, which I found over the pandemic. I think that's when Yeah, so one of the things we'll get into that a lot more, but it offers incredible connections and opportunities for dancers, performers, teachers, artists, to make money and connect with jobs. And it's been such a wonderful resource for me and so many artists. And so that is how we met. And we first had a Zoom meeting. And I remember being like, Oh, we are friends. Like we're good friends. And that was a couple years ago. And then we met for the first time this past August in Pittsburgh, doing a job at working at a summer intensive. And it was so fun. And so nice. So
Ramita Ravi
I kept I forgot all about our zoom call. And I heard that was a while ago probably like 2021 or Yeah, totally, totally different time. That's wild. Yeah,
Jessica Altchiler
it's just such a great free source to have. I'm so appreciative that you created it, and I've loved watching it evolve. It's evolved so much already just in a couple of years. So we'll definitely get all into that. But that is the backstory for this wonderful artist, entrepreneur, human being. So the first thing I want to ask you is what is your human bio? So what is your bio that exists off of your resume? That's not necessarily all over your website or in your professional work?
Ramita Ravi
Oh, that's interesting. Um, well, I grew up in Pittsburgh, and I've been dancing since I was five years old. It's my favorite thing to do, as I'm sure is one of the reasons we're connected. Yeah, I just grew up dancing my whole life. I also I went to a small studio near my house and I live in like a pretty or used to live in like a very, like rural part of Pennsylvania. So, dance just like was so special to me. And it gave me like a sense of, you know, activity, community, everything. I also did classical Indian dance on the weekends. And that taught me about my family and about my culture. My My aunt is my dance teacher. But yeah, so I just grew up my whole life dancing in both of these styles, and those were my, you know, kind of communities and then I had school. I always like loved school. I was like a nerd, growing up and really liked, like healthcare and autism research and different things. And then I went to college and all of those worlds kind of came together. They were pretty separate when I was growing up and then in college, they all came together and my dad's company collaborated with like an Indian acapella group and then I those worlds kind of collided and then you know, all those people like really cared about school and were like, super academically driven. So it just, it was cool and my whole life just like converged. And it gave me a lot of confidence. And that's where I met Nick that my co founder for artwork, and that's where I met a lot of my like best friends even now, it also I think, is the reason I became a professional dancer because I was pre med going into college and, and then I like, got to bed and I was like, Wow, all of this stuff can exist together. And there's so much like business behind dance and, and Nick actually left college halfway through to go on tour. And like, I was like, well, you can do this anyway. So it sparked my dance career. He forced me to do So You Think You Can Dance at the end of college. And then that's why I like I ended up taking the leap and actually doing this. Um, so yeah, and now I've just been a dancer, and choreographer and started this company for the last seven years now. And yeah, we can get more into into that stuff. But that's the journey. That
Jessica Altchiler
is quite a journey. That is quite a journey, it seems like you had a good sense of like, letting things unfold as they were meant to and seeing what came to be and listening to yourself. And also like, connecting with the people around you and letting that unfold naturally to
Ramita Ravi
Yeah, totally there honestly have been so many moments where I'm like, there is a higher power there is like a universe that is guiding me towards what I'm supposed to be doing. And honestly, like even so you think it was the same day as my college graduation. And for most people, I'd be like, okay, like, obviously, this is flashy, like, let's just do that. But I like really didn't want to miss graduation. Because it was such it like college was like such an important moment. To me, it was like such a formative time. And I just like, even think about it. Now it like makes me emotional. Because I was like I don't want to like just like cut this chapter short. But then the universe worked it out. So that like I was actually able to go like a day late to say think and I didn't miss anything. And if I think that was one of the moments where I was like, I need to be both of these people, like I need to be an artist, I need to be like, you know, a business or like, you know, whatever smart person and have those act together. And then it like happened again, there was a year where like, I guess a year into me dancing, I was like, Okay, I'm going to apply to full time jobs and also apply to agencies. And it happened on like, the same week, and I had to like make a decision of what to do and ended up doing the agency because I figured like, I could, you know, fit business back in. And somehow I was able to do that. So anyway, there's just been so many, like, little Crossroads like that have forced me to choose what I'm supposed to do. And they've all led to life now. And I'm sure that will like continue unfolding. So anyway, it's just it's really like crazy to reflect on stuff like that.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah. When you were younger, with what was the intensity of your training? Like was it always very intense? Did you see people around you who were moving in the professional direction? Or were you always a little bit more academically driven and doing dance as something that's fun and evolved into something professional? What was that? Like?
Ramita Ravi
It was like pretty intense. Always growing up. My mom has a funny story of like, I wanted to be a gymnast when I was a kid, and there was a ballet studio, like around the corner. And so she just put me in to the dance studio and started with ballet. And then it was like, tap and jazz and out you know, and she was like, I just got fully sucked into it. And next thing we knew, you know, it was my whole life. And so yeah, I you know, did the classic like competition kid competed, my whole life was dancing like 3040 hours a week. And I didn't know if i i Just like honestly, I never thought of it as an option professionally because I didn't see a single person, especially like that looked like me or that had parents like mine or anything that like was doing this and so I just didn't really like think it was a possibility and I didn't like look into that. When I was applying to college. I did apply to mostly schools that were like academically rigorous but had good dance programs. So I wanted to be a dance major and be pre med but even like the way I can I got I know I don't know what I was thinking or like if that would have been possible. But time was the only school I applied to that didn't have a dance program. And I think it was like a blessing in disguise honestly, because I think doing the company outside of school like it made me miss it more and it made me like really, really like prioritize it in my life and be like I don't want to like give this up. This is like such a big part of who I am. And so yeah, I think that is really why it drove me to do it professionally because I just I felt that Last for like, freshman year, I was like, Oh my gosh, did I just, you know, totally give up on dance like completely and I hadn't because I was still dancing a good amount in the company. But yeah, it just like really motivated me to, like, take it more seriously and like, keep training at a high level. And yeah,
Jessica Altchiler
can you tell us more about that college experience and what it was like starting pre med and how you found this company that you were dancing for, and how the trajectory shifted and ebbed and flowed throughout those four years.
Ramita Ravi
So well, my path to getting into college was really wild. Actually, I got waitlisted at Penn, and the other schools I had gotten into were either like, really, really big, and my high school was like a small girl school. And I just, I was like, if I go to like a massive giant school, I'm gonna like drown. And I like I'm not going to be able to anchor myself and then so I got into like one really massive school and one small liberal arts school. And they just were so polar opposite. And I was like, I don't feel like I'll fit into either these places. But I ended up choosing like the, the bigger state school and and then I've like, followed up with the waitlist of time. And it's another one of those crossroads moments because I like wasn't even thinking about 10 Because it didn't have any dance. And I, I really didn't consider it that seriously. But since it was an option, I was like, Okay, let me like really follow up. And so I ended up getting in, and I think it's like the best thing that happened to me, I'm, I'm so grateful. Like eternally because my dad's company, it was just, it's called arthouse dance company. It's like the best people I ever met. And I think when I got to college, and when I auditioned, it was like, immediately, I knew I would have a friend group and a community of just people who are really similar. And I it was always like, something that I did. We had rehearsals all weekend, and on the, in the evenings, we had classes and like, there would be teachers that came in from Philly and New York. And so it was really pretty good training still. And then we got to create a show every semester and create a bunch of concept videos. So it was everything from like choreographing to dancing to like, I got to be costume director, artistic director, and then chair. And so I got to see like all these different sides of how to run a dance company and run a you know, in create shows and stuff like that. So I just like loved it, and truly my best friends, but academically I was pre med. I think just like I've struggled with big classes and tests. And it's just not how my brain works. I can't like sit in a lecture hall and like absorb information. And that's how all of pre med was. And I lasted like a year and a half. And I just realized I was like, I don't think that this is what I like how I want to learn, like even if I do think I'd like medicine, which I which I did think I'd like. It just wasn't how I wanted to spend my four years. And I was taking at the same time some like public health classes and health and business. And I ended up switching to that major it was called Health and Society. So I got to take some business classes, some education classes, some like public health classes, and it was super immersed in Philadelphia. So we got to like, talk to students about smoking cessation and talk, like, figure out what like food insecurity looked like. And Philly is a city that has a lot of like very prevalent community health issues, like because there's a huge, like poverty disparity, etc. So anyway, I just got to learn, like so much about that. And it was much more creative. So I think that's what introduced me to business and like problem solving in that way. And I'm glad that I switched the major because I ended up having like a much better time with like, my academic career in school and with dance. So it ended up like kind of all coming together. Well,
Jessica Altchiler
I think it's important to highlight that you can want something in theory, like, Oh, I'm pre med, I want to go into medicine. I want to be a doctor in theory, but what is the reality of what your day to day life is going to be? And are you going to be happy in your training and in the process of becoming this thing. And I think that's something that's very easy to forget. So I just want to really highlight that you're like, hey, this is not how I want to learn this is not conducive to really what I want my life to be in the day to day and also is probably telling about what the outcome would be like if you were to be Yeah, exactly.
Ramita Ravi
I just felt like and I feel this way you know now in my career I'm I know that like not every path is for me. Not every space is for me and like I think that I learned that in college like I don't I don't thrive in those types of rooms where I'm just sitting there Like, uh, like being spoken out, like, that's just not who I am. It's not how I'm going to, like, be happy or like, be my best self or any of those things. And so like, why would I just push my me and sometimes like, it's just a means to an end. But for me, it wasn't enough of a means to an end. And I just felt like, you know, in that healthcare context, there were other ways I could like impact health or think about health that we're not, you know, being a doctor sitting in those lectures. So, so yeah, and I, but anyway, that same mentality, I'm sure, like, like we've talked about is similar for dance. It's similar for like, how you how you start your career, and yeah, yeah, I
Jessica Altchiler
was just about to ask you, do you think that having that empowered decision helped you moving forward in your professional career? And also the fact that you weren't in a dance major? Can you see how that impacted your professional career as well,
Ramita Ravi
I think what I got lucky with is that there were a few people in my dance company who had been pursuing dance professionally, like, at the same time as me, or who had done it before. And, like one girl, girl, girl, man, she still is like, one of my best friends and lives in New York. She was a senior when I was a freshman, and she started, she like, left and this, you know, has been working as a dancer for four years now. And, and then, like I said, Nick was doing it. And so I think that helped me more than anything else, just having like friends and peers to kind of like, you know, go through the process with together, I didn't feel like I like, was lacking knowledge or lacking training or anything, because I think that, especially on the knowledge side, it's like, no one knows what they're doing when they get to New York, like, even, you know, like, no matter. I talked to kids who, you know, are at Pace currently, they're like, how do you do this? I mean, it's like, it's like, I had to learn that stuff to everyone has to learn it like because it just is different for everyone. And you just kind of figure it out as you go. But so I didn't feel like I wasn't, didn't have the resources, if that makes sense. I just felt like I had to figure it out regardless. Um, but yeah, I don't know if that answered your question.
Jessica Altchiler
It did. And I asked that because I think there's a lot of pressure to major in dance or musical theater, or whatever it is. And a lot of people come out of it, broken or hurt in some way. And so it's, I interviewed my friend, Kristen Yancey, and she also did not study dance in college and ended up being on Broadway and creating her own company and all these things. And so I really like to highlight that part of people's story is to say, Hey, look at all the different paths you can take. The only thing that matters is that it's fulfilling for you, and it's most empowering for you. And knowledge about this industry comes from being in this industry, it comes from knowing people who have been doing it. And sometimes it can come from a major in a dance program, or musical theater program, or whatever it is. But sometimes that's actually a hindrance to what you're doing. Sometimes it really doesn't help. So I think that there must be something about being so bravely and powerfully walking down your own concrete path that is so yours, that then leads you inevitably to this career that you are destined for, because you're listening to yourself and your own intuition.
Ramita Ravi
I think I have the career that I have, because I had no other example of like, what it could be like I had literally no idea what I was supposed to do. I didn't even know what being a professional dancer meant. Truly, I think I Yeah. What I saw growing up was like judges and I saw convention teachers. And that's literally all I saw. And I didn't like know what to expect. And I think that like, that almost gave me a sense of, okay, I can just build this into whatever I want. And like whatever makes me happy. And I've tried everything. Like when I left college, I moved here. Immediate immediately. And like I said it was right off. So you think and I made it to like the top 15 girls or something. So I wasn't on the live shows, but they aired my audition and it was there hadn't been a South Asian person before and I did like a mixture of classical Indian dance and contemporary and that was great. Like, that was something that meant a lot to me because I never you know, I wanted to see that my whole life growing up. But what happened actually was interesting because I got here I started working immediately. But it was all Indian dance like it was all I joined like three Bollywood companies. I went on tour with the Bollywood company. And for probably a year I just I was like, working a lot but I was so siloed into this box that I was like wait, I Did Indian jets like Bollywood I literally did on the weekends and for fun. And then I studied classical Indian dance like one day a week. But everything else I did for six days a week. And so I was like, um, I just I felt so stereotyped and I felt so put in a box of wow, like, because of how I look like is, that's like, the reason that I'm working. And it was just so like, it was really hurtful, honestly, because I ended up getting to a point where I was like, Wow, I'm like, not actually enjoying a lot of this. And it's just because I don't feel like I can be my full self. Like, I feel super misunderstood. And I feel like people just want me to be this one thing, and they're not embracing or accepting, like, who I actually am, which is, you know, like, like a jazz dancer, and a contemporary dancer, and all of these things, and a choreographer, and all these different things that like, I just wasn't able to exercise. So I got to this point where I was like, Wait, if I'm supposed to do what I love, like, I should be like loving it. And I was not at all I was, like, so miserable that first year. The other thing that like, was really the foundation for artwork is that first year, I, I still didn't know if I was like, with my life going to be a professional dancer. And so I thought of it as like, let's give it a try this year and see what happens. And I quickly realized you can't just like do something for a year and have it work. But I, in that year, I was like, I'm not making money doing anything that uses my brain, I'm just gonna, like do side hustles and like, pick up money where I can. And so I was doing like crazy things. I was like getting shock therapy at like NYU to be like a test subject for like 30 bucks. Like, I oh my god, it did so many flash bombs. And like, I'd wake up to be like, a background talent on like a fitness class. Like, there's so many things, so many just like jobs that you pick up. And I was miserable. And I was not paying my bills. I was like, it was just, it was so hard. And I was like, this can't be the best way to do this. And what I ended up doing is going back to my degree into business, and I ended up freelancing for startups. And so I started with like marketing, and then I moved into product design and UX design. And those honestly, they, they gave me the skills to now like start arts work, but I've worked for a ton of companies and just, I would like sit on my laptop, that and audition and just like design, and you know, Bill, I've like built apps and like designed apps and websites and different things. And I would do that in my free time. And it was just way more stable. It was remote. It was like, more lucrative and I just like felt like I my money was taken care of. And it helped me get out of that box of like, Indian dance as well. Because I was like, okay, like, I don't think that much like let me sing more to get into theater. Let me like, you know, take the time to focus on getting signed, like so many things that I felt like were next steps to kind of like move my career in the next direction. I needed like just financial stability to do. So. That's like kind of why we built arts REC is because I think once you have a sense of security financially, you're able to, like, build the career outside of that, that you like, want and are excited about and yeah, so anyway, that's kind of like how the first year sucked, like, it was horrible. I hate it. 2017. But it happened for a reason.
Jessica Altchiler
Can you tell us a little bit more about artwork, just all of the workings of it and how you created it, all of it? Yeah,
Ramita Ravi
in college, and just out of college, we would like we have a running Google doc of just all the things that are hard in terms of being an artist. And there are obviously several like there's so many things that are just challenging. And most of our friends from Penn went into finance or consulting or, you know, just traditional nine to five jobs. And they showed up, they got like, a great paycheck, they got benefits, they got, you know, paid time off all this stuff that like no one in the dance industry gets unless you're on a full time contract. And like even those end like quite frequently, right? So we were just like, This doesn't make sense. And that's not fair. And then I think when COVID hit, we finally had some time to just like riff on it and see what we wanted to create. And so we started with like a LinkedIn type of site for artists to, you know, show their work and we wanted it to be like a jobs networking platform. And we launched that we, you know, got engineers to build it. And I think what we found out is that while it's nice to have people join a site, we like wanted to actually see money going into artists pockets, and one of our advisors is A Payal Kadakia. She's a dancer, and she's the founder of ClassPass. I met her early in my days in New York, and she's like, been a huge mentor to me. But she's one of our advisors. And she like, told us like, whatever happens, just get money if your goal is to like, help artists pay rent, like, get money in their pockets, like what jobs can you match them to just start doing it, you can like, not even use the product just like start emailing people texting people. And so that's what we did. We spent like 12 months probably just like texting people. And there were like these massive Facebook groups that needed subs and master class teachers. And we were just like, we have people, we have people. And then now it's like a full Live app and website. And it helps artists pick up work when they need it. So right now we match people to a lot of jobs, dance studios judging. And people can also hire photographers and videographers. So those are the buckets that we work in right now. And as an artist, you just go onto the site, you'll see jobs available, and you can literally just say I'm interested. And they get your information. And then you message them back and forth. And like they book you. And so it's just like any other gig app, like Uber or Lyft. Like that exists in another space, but it's specifically for artists. So yeah, it's been like really, really rewarding to especially see people be able to, like pick this up, or pick up work when they need it. And even for myself, like, we don't make any money off of artwork, because, you know, we have like, investors, we still don't pay ourselves for building it. But like, it's like, I've been able to pay my rent some months, like using the platform as an artist and just like going and teaching a class here and there. And so it's just exciting to see that, you know, coming to life, and we're excited to keep growing it and yeah, see what happens.
Jessica Altchiler
Yeah, I love it. As soon as I saw it, I was like, this is brilliant. And I've loved being able to use it. And as an artist, you can like I've been able to do workshops, and I've done private lessons and coaching. Like that has been really wonderful. I love doing one on one. And I remember in our initial zoom like, you were like, What do you want? You know, what, what are you looking for? And it's just such an incredible platform. This isn't like why we're here talking. But I just want to really highlight it for artists to hop on and connect in some way. Because why why not have this and also like, it's a beautiful way to network with other artists like I met you and I met John John, when we were doing our intensive in August, and you two are like two of my favorite people that I got to meet this year. And it's really incredible.
Ramita Ravi
Yeah, it's been really cool to see the community aspect. It's something I want to bring back more because I think when it first started, it was really there weren't jobs happen it like there were no studio jobs, there were no like professional jobs, nothing was happening. So we couldn't have like, done this version of it back then. But what we did have back then was like, the community, like people just joined, and we're like talking on there. And I think that's something I'm like, wanting to bring back into the current iteration. Because there's just so much that is hard to navigate as an artist and like just having people that you can communicate with is, is really necessary. And there's just no technology in our industry. Like, you know, there's casting side, they're really old, there's like, I don't even know what else there is. There's not a ton of resources to support this massive demographic of artists, not only dancers, but just like so many freelance artists, and we all have to deal with the same shit and like, it sucks. And it's really hard. And we shouldn't have to compromise on like being able to pay our rent and building wealth and like, living a life that is comfortable and happy. Just because we choose this career and like, I don't know, I think that it's it's hard because we all drink a lot of Kool Aid. And we all are like, you know, I think this is like, this is what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to, you know, do a job that go on unemployment, and then do our next job. And like auditioning is the only grind that you can do. And like, that's a lot of people. You know, if you see that around you, you're like, Yeah, that's what I should be doing. But sometimes you have to stop and be like, is that really what I want? And like, what are the options for me? And so those are some of the things I've been thinking about is like, everyone's path is their own. So like how can we support people to like build the career that they want? Not just like what everyone else is doing so
Jessica Altchiler
and most artists at one point or another, have had some serious financial struggles and have had to work jobs that really are emotionally and or physically depleting. And then that prevents you from even going out to those auditions. And it's a really challenging cycle. And you're, you've done an amazing job in trying to disrupt that cycle for artists, and I'm very appreciative of it. And I'm sure everyone who is involved as appreciative of it. So thank you for creating, and for keeping it going.
Ramita Ravi
Appreciate it, I remember. Yeah, my first year out, I went to some type of seminar and they handed us a list that was like Joe jobs for dancers. And I just remember, like, it was like, talked about for five minutes. And this was like, a couple month long program. And I was like, Why, like, this is the like, this is the core of everything. It's like, if you can't put food on the table, then it doesn't matter. Like what type of headshot you have, like, it just doesn't, because how
Jessica Altchiler
are you going to afford that shot in the first place?
Ramita Ravi
Yeah, like you need to prepare for to, like, be a person and like, take the time out to go to an audition. And I just, yeah, so I just believe so strongly. And like I think financial stability, like, helps you make better decisions that helps you not act in scarcity and, like actually do the things that you care about. And money's not everything, but at least having like, a cushion to feel comfortable and feel okay. Like, it also allows more people to be in the arts, like a lot of people can't take the risk to do this. It's like they don't have, you know, family support or other things. And, you know, I think that's just the reality. So So yeah,
Jessica Altchiler
financial stability is incredibly important. And you also have the ability to then tap into all the different parts of who you are. So some people love to teach, and this gives them that opportunity. And it's more also, it's also a call for people to engage with all the different parts of who they are say, Hey, what are these other parts of myself that I'm curious about? Or what are some goals or dreams I have that might be on the backburner? Because being an artist is so in the forefront of my mind, but maybe I'm curious about this other thing as well. But I'm afraid because that's always been my thing. Like I double majored in psychology, I was always interested in both the academic side and the artists side. And I think now through this podcast, actually, I'm learning how to bridge the two. But I've constantly been in this back and forth of like, do I go back to grad school and become a therapist, like, so many people around me, tell me to do? Do I keep trying to pursue this career. And as I'm evolving more into acting, and I'm like, auditioning, and things like that, I don't see how they can intersect. And I think that this podcast is the first time I'm really seeing how they can intersect. But that takes a while to figure out, it's really challenging, because you sometimes feel like, okay, well, I'm not giving my 100% to this thing, I'm not giving my 100% of this thing like am I only giving 50% to each of these dreams, but I think it's really important to highlight that you can do not like everything all at once. But you can really tap into different parts of who you are. And that can support you on an emotional, physical, mental level, and on a financial level, potentially.
Ramita Ravi
100% I also think that like, something that the outside world doesn't really understand about the arts is that, like, our schedules are really dynamic. And I think that, like, I don't know, I, when I was freelancing, especially like, I would just work in the time that I had, and then I would like audition and the times that I had or, like, if I was on a contract, like I'd be doing that at night, and I would like do my freelance work during the day. And that's what I do with arts work too. And I just think like, as long as we can, like, be creative with our schedules, and like we have, we're so lucky that like, a lot of things are remote these days, that we can kind of like build things into our schedules to like make time for everything and obviously, like, we don't want to get burnt out and that can happen as well. But I just think that like if you make room for the different pieces that feel good then like you don't get burnt out because you actually enjoy the life that you have and like your I think for me especially like I became more selective about like, what auditions I would go into or what jobs I like wanted to submit to even because I just knew I'm like not a good fit for everything and also like I'm not gonna be happy doing everything. There's a little several that I will be unhappy doing and I've experienced those and they're traumatizing and I don't want to do those And like, I think that it sounds like really like, you know, I don't know, whatever, like ungrateful or privileged to say, but I just there are certain things that like they, they've hurt my spirit, like during them, they've been like, really hard environments. And I don't want to it goes back to that idea. Like, if you're doing something you love, like you shouldn't be traumatized and sad and upset every day. And so I've just gotten really much more careful with, like, how I spend my time and what, you know, I want to go out for and you know, maybe people don't think that, like, I'm doing as much as I should or not, like booked all the time or whatever. But like when I do do a job, like, I want it to be something that's, like fulfilling and gratifying and that I feel happy in. And so I don't know, I just think there's like, our schedules are really dynamic. And like, yeah, the more that you have that like, understanding, like, you can piece all these things together, it
Jessica Altchiler
makes me think about how we put so much weight on someone else handing us a contract for a performance job specifically. And if you don't have that contract in your hand, you are quote, unquote, unemployed, like, that's how we say, oh, you know, I'm, I'm unemployed right now, whatever. And I remember saying this a few weeks ago to somebody, I don't remember who, and they were like, you're not unemployed. You don't, I mean, you, technically, you don't have a contract in your hand. But you're sitting here and working on this podcast all day, you're writing for hours, every single morning, you're doing other things to get work and make money, even if it's not a performance job. And also, when you're doing those other things, you have the ability to say no to those jobs that you really don't fucking want, that you know, will be a bad environment, working for someone you don't want to work for things like that. So it is it is a matter of changing the conversation, and how we talk about being booked and blessed that phrase, and having a contract in your hand or not. That's not what deems someone successful. It is not what is going to ensure happiness or fulfillment. And I think it's really important to change that conversation.
Ramita Ravi
Sometimes it's literally just good for social media, like honestly, sometimes I've done contracts, and they've been the least happy. I've been the financial the worst. I've been like, sometimes, like you have to make big financial sacrifices to do these jobs that like, pay very little. And like, they're not like, I'm like, How is this livable in New York City, you know. And that's just the reality of it like, and I think that we don't talk about that enough, because there is this Kool Aid of like, we have to be so grateful. And we have to be so excited. But that maybe it works for some people, I just, it doesn't work for me. And it has really, really made me miserable in the past. So I'm just kind of Yeah, and actually, I remember Nick, years ago, like, way before earthwork talking about how like, you know, financially, just having your baseline be something that is like comfortable. And also like, things that you enjoy and that you like you like the way that you're paying the bills, and then like the dance jobs kind of like are on top of that. They're just like an added sprinkle, which is such a crazy way to think about it when we consider this our careers. But like, if you think about it that way, then like they do, then the jobs do end up like sparking a little more joy, because you're like, Okay, I'm like, you know, taking time away from this life that I actually really enjoy to do something that I enjoy even more. And like, what a blessing like if that's the case. So I don't know. And maybe that doesn't work for everyone. But that's kind of like how I've started to think about is like, build a life that I really like. And now like the business is more so my focus in general. But, but yeah,
Jessica Altchiler
yeah. And I think it's also challenging for people who are like, all I want to do is perform there is nothing else that is fulfilling for me. Yeah. So ever, not even teaching what I do, like not even teaching dance or anything like that. And I would say to those people to just start opening your mind to be curious about what else might potentially move you or fulfill you in some way. That's really challenging when you're like, This is the one and only thing in my life that I think will fulfill me and make me feel this way. And if I can't do it, I don't know how to feel this way. And I think that is a huge challenge and I don't have some answers. For people like that, which I think is a lot of people, but my invitation would be to just stay curious and open yourself up to other possibilities. But that is really the challenge too, especially when, you know, we have a little bit of a different path because we also were engaged with like academia and interested in these different things from the get go. But when you train from such a young age, and then it goes into college, and you're just so narrow minded, and like focused on this one thing, you don't have the opportunity to be exploring after. And by the time you're a grown ass adult, having been like, thrown into this industry head first. And then you're like, wait, but I'm, I'm kind of drowning a little bit, I'm just trying to stay afloat, and do something that's going to be fulfilling and make me money. And I don't really have the time or the energy to be touching upon these other things, which is why like, also, as a teacher, for young people, I'm always like, what else are you interested in? You're interested in their feed? Great, go play with that. I know you're dancing full time. But go play? Oh, you really like math? Like, that's really curious. Make sure you're really allowing yourself the time to see what you can be doing with that. Yeah.
Ramita Ravi
I totally agree. And I think that like, if, if that is kind of like what you love and are passionate about, there's also like, so many, like different ways to perform as well, right? Like, it's not, I think people also get into the mindset of like theater, bus, Broadway or best like, or company work, or whatever it is, but there are ways that you can, like, be an artist and still do what you love, like in in different avenues. And, you know, that can be a challenge. So it's not saying like, everyone has to do a million things. It's just like, you know, give yourself some breathing room, I think the air just for me, that's helped me to like, not put so much pressure on it and not put so much like, I have to do this I have like, once it starts feeling like you have to and your worth is determined by like, what you're doing or like what show you're doing, then I just feel like you're not happy internally like so. Yeah, I totally agree with you. I think exploring and figuring out just, you know, what, what actually feel with you on the inside. And
Jessica Altchiler
it's important to hear that from someone like you who has these big booming credits, and has had really awesome performance jobs like radio city you just did, which we need to get into. And So You Think You Can Dance? And then to have you be saying, hey, like, there are the other avenues that I've been exploring. There have been times when I've been pretty miserable. And I've had to figure out how to work my way through it all. I think that's really important because to see somebody's resume from afar, which is why I start with a human bio, but to see that professional resume and to say, oh, look like they are booked and bless. They're constantly working, they're doing all of this. And then to here, look at all the stuff that I'm doing the background, actually, a lot of my life has been not performing and figuring out what fulfills me outside of that and how to become financially stable outside of that. I think that's really important to hear.
Ramita Ravi
Yeah, it's something that I'm trying to think about myself. I think a lot changed for me during the pandemic, like one starting to build this company like this is really where I feel myself come alive. And it's it's really fucking hard to build a startup and it's really hard to build a tech startup that has to do with the arts, when like, no one in tech knows anything about the arts. Like it's been, you can ask Nick like just the hardest thing we've ever done and but it's so like, it drives me so much. But honestly, like so many people that I interact with, like, don't ask me about it, like they don't talk like they're like What are you what's the performance job and what I don't get it because it's like on social media that's what you see. I don't talk about how I sit here for like hours every day building this website and like building this business and I think that you know that it's hard sometimes like just to explain that to people and like explain that that doesn't make me like less of a dancer. I like still love dance. I just like I just kind of prioritize it differently. But then also in general, I, I've been feeling like at odds with my performance career and just where I want to be in the industry, I transparently have just experienced a lot of hard hard invite Romance like for the past seven years of my career as a performer and I just feel like there's so many times where I can feel so voiceless and so hurt. And a lot of it is because of how I look and feeling like either alone or stereotyped or experiencing like full fledged racism. And I just, it's so hard to show up every day. And there's no other industry in which your identity is like, so forefront. And I've just had to show up every single day and like face these hard truths of like feeling left out feeling small feeling like I don't belong feeling like I have to, like carry the weight of an entire community feeling like, I'm holding me here because I do a certain style of dance or because I have a certain skin color. Like I've dealt with so many like mental hurdles. And sometimes, just like, yeah, playing like toxicity and abuse, and I just don't want to be in environments like that. And I think that my performance career like, I've been so grateful for it, I'm really, like, grateful for the work that I've gotten to do, but I don't know, I have been wanting to move into like, in the dance industry, choreography, I've started moving into I work with some artists and like, when I was in LA, I did a lot more choreography. And it really, really loved that because I just get to, like, be creative and like, just see things and use my use my mind and like create dance, and I love that but also just like, like producing or like just being on that side of the table and having a bigger say and kind of like what stories get to be told. And like, if I care a lot about representation, and, you know, I feel like I've spent a lot of my career being like, okay, representation means my body and my face, like being out there. But I think the next phase of my career will be like, how can I use other parts of my like skill set to, to help, like what stories get to be told, like what art gets to, like, have have backing and have support and like, what stories are we telling and I think a lot of a lot of my friends like I have, I have a friend who made his Broadway debut and Mean Girls, and he was an actor, like for his whole career. And then he just like decided, he was like, I just don't, I like want to be able to tell these stories and write these stories. And he moved to LA and he's like, been a writer for TV. And he's just like, it's, it's just so cool to see him kind of like, take this experience that he had and like turn it into like, Okay, actually, I want to be like the person telling these stories. Um, so anyway, I think that I might be experiencing a similar shift of, rather than just like fitting into boxes that other people give me like, what, what does a different version of that look like? So I'm not sure I think I'm taking a bit of like a pause to like reevaluate, honestly, and and I haven't like stopped to do this in several, several years. So I'm, like, looking forward to it. But it's really scary. And I've been, like, transparently like a mess all the time. But figuring it out.
Jessica Altchiler
Well, first of all, I'm so sorry that so much of your career has been tainted, and you've been traumatized by this racism that like unfortunately, it's not that surprising, because when you say when you have to say in a sentence, I'm the first South Asian person in this thing, then all of a sudden, it's like, oh my gosh, that's so amazing. That's something to celebrate, but like what year are we in? And what kind of pressure does that fucking put on you as one person as you're saying to represent an entire community so on top of like, the normal trials and tribulations and traumas and abuses that occur in performance jobs, you're adding that layer on top of it, which seems impossible, honestly. And so draining, it's really
Ramita Ravi
challenging and when something that is like that I didn't really expect is that you know, I've always felt like a bit of an outsider in the dance industry just because I didn't see that many people like me but it's also true of the Indian community like they know of Indian dance as or they know of dances Indian dancer, like what they see in Bollywood movies and everyone dances like everyone does Indian dance is just part of our culture. But not everyone has like gone to a studio and like the world that I grew up in, they just have no idea they have no idea like how how lonely that experience has been and so sometimes like it's hard for me that they don't understand either because you know, I have like an amazing like, close friend support system but like the right other community, they just like, there's, they're supportive. But like sometimes I just feel misunderstood on both ends. So that's been like challenging because it's just like, it's just a hard place to be identity wise. And like I said, I just don't think any other like industry, besides the performing artists, and besides entertainment, like put your identity, so forefront. So I think that's why it's difficult.
Jessica Altchiler
And you're also coming off the heels of one of the most intensive performance jobs you could ever have. So you're doing what up to four shows a day? Is that true?
Ramita Ravi
Yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh, it like, definitely kicked my ass in terms of physically, I was like, this is like day two of rehearsal. And they were like, Okay, go and everything has to be perfect. And you know, it. I mean, it's a beast of a show, we have like, very little time to put it together. So I understand. And learning everything and getting all the details, especially when people have done it. It's just like, it's a lot to take on. But it definitely did feel really rewarding. And Radio City is a show that is the first show my dad's on America. And it's just I saw it, like when I was little, and we just always did dances about like the rock cats arena city. And it was just, it was just really full circle for me. And it was also a moment that I just wanted to like them, like prove it to myself that I could like, exist there and belong. And like, yeah, it was just a big moment for like me personally more than anything. And so anyway, I had a great time. And it was definitely hard, like physically mentally challenging, and like many, many ways, but I was trying to really think about the positives and think about like, what a what a gift it is to be able to especially like tourists that come from all over the world and come to see this show. And like, especially, you know, for the ensemble, like we play New Yorkers, and just like for that to look like the audience a little bit more, is awesome. And I also think one of the things I'm really grateful for, about the South Asian community is that it's so small, like in in theater and entertainment, like, it's still very, very small, and it grows every year. And I'm like, so grateful. But we all we all have, like, actually stick stuck together pretty well. The people that are like really in it, like if I see another Brown Girl, in an audition room, we're like, immediately friends truly, and some of my closest closest friends are people that I met that way. But the other thing is, it's given me a lot of visibility into like, people who are like, have been doing this for like 20 years, and who experienced what I'm experiencing, like, so many years ago. And they're directors, they're choreographers now, and there are producers and I've just been able to see like, how they all face the same kind of dilemma of like, you know, we can either fit into the boxes that are provided, or we can like, you know, make a little pivot and, and start creating stories that we want to tell and it's really inspiring to see. And it's and it's cool to see how intentionally they make changes in terms of like, how they show up in the room, how they, you know, bring people in how they make sure that you know, we're like being as equitable and inclusive as possible. And it's all a learning process, but it's just been like really inspiring to me to see that journey for people and like, in the few moments where I've been able to like, choreograph or bring on dancers or you know, to projects like I try to think about that too. I'm like, I just I never want someone to feel like hurt by me or like disrespected and like if you know, I'm not perfect either. But like, if that happens, like I want it to at least be a space where we can have a conversation about it and there can be dialogue so that that doesn't happen again in the future. And I don't know I just think like that will keep happening like it as good people like continue to do these things and have these conversations. I do think hopefully it'll get like safer, more transparent. All the above.
Jessica Altchiler
Can you highlight some choreographers or directors or experiences you've had with people who really have empowered you and have been a positive influence in your life so we can celebrate that?
Ramita Ravi
Yeah, absolutely. Um, there is a one woman Monica Kapoor, she's, she was the original cast of Mamma mia, and she is like an amazing director and choreographer now and there was like a more national level thing that happened with the Oscars and like, we believe there was like five people that made like a little solidarity group, and they've just been like, a safe haven and they've helped me so much and we've all helped teach other people that I've really loved working for Stephanie Clemens is like, a gem of a human and like, she's just like, so, so great. And I feel like I first met her. It was like Hamilton was my first audition in New York and I like totally bombed the singing. It was like really embarrassing, but I met her way back then. And she's just like a good human you, you can tell. And then Lulu is another one who she's been like, supporting us with artwork. But she went to Penn actually. And like, I reached out to her. It's an alum years ago, and I did like one of her intensives and I just feel like, she's just, she's incredible. She's done so many different things. Worked for so many artists like queen, queen, but like, I think that I really admire like, she talks a lot about like, like financial stability, equity representation, like and she will call call shit out if it's like not okay, and I just all those people. I think one other person who I don't know super well yet, but like peripherally is Kat Burns, who has been building the choreographers guild. And I think there's just like so much. So many times that like choreographers got taken advantage of, and like, the people in the community that she's building to, like, just set some guidelines and set standards in the industry. It is like really incredible. So those are some people that I really admire and who were like doing good work. And there are several others like, across like, producers and teachers, you know, there's a time but yeah, those are some people that I've looked up to a lot.
Jessica Altchiler
What is something that you could work on? That would make you really excited?
Ramita Ravi
I think the things that I'm really looking forward to moving forward. I think I'd like really love to, like, like produce a TV show or something like that. centers like Asian Americans, some of the struggles we go through, like, I really love that world and that type of storytelling or like a, like a documentary or a docu series, like just being on the team for something like that. I think it'd be really excited by the same thing with with theater, like if there is something and like a choreographing to I do think like, I still have like excitement as choreographer, but I would love to like, yeah, just like it as long as the story is something that I feel like excited by and inspired by to like choreography, work associate work. And then I were there's an artist Raveena that I work with. And she's amazing. She like did Coachella, we did a Coachella set Hollywood Bowl, like a bunch of really like big shows. And I've gotten a taste into like, what our Discworld is like, and she's just so her music is very ethereal. And I think like you see, like commercial dance, and you're like, Okay has to be hard hitting hip hop. But a lot of artists like don't actually want that. And that's not their vibe. And, and so I would love to like, figure out what choreography looks like in a commercial context that is, you know, a little bit more contemporary or more like storytelling and movement based. And there's some really cool choreographers and like, creative directors that I look up to that do that stuff. So that's
Jessica Altchiler
awesome. So yeah, and what are you doing to take care of yourself now?
Ramita Ravi
Very good question. Um, I've been, I've been on a bit of a social media detox, which has been nice. I've been journaling a lot and reading audiobooks, especially like, I really like reading people's stories or like narratives. And if you listen on an audiobook, it's like, as if they're talking to you. So I really liked that. And then I really want to get into meditation more. My mom actually, like, has really been talking about it. And it's helped her a lot in her life, especially in the last a year or so. And so I think I might try to, like have a better meditation practice, but I do it haphazardly right now.
Jessica Altchiler
And am I wrong to say that working on arts work is also something that is fairly therapeutic. Like it's still work, but it's something you're excited by and fulfilled doing? Oh,
Ramita Ravi
yeah, absolutely. I think I artwork, and like, even with, like, the, you know, career question of like, what do I want to do next? Like, what I actually want to do next is like, continue scaling artwork. Like I want to be a founder and like, I want that to be kind of like, one of my main things that The problem is that is that it's just like, hard and like, we need capital. And like, there's all these, you know, other questions. So I'm trying to like, figure it out as it goes. But that is like what I care about the most, and is like the number one priority in my life right now. So, yeah, just continuing to do that. And I love working with Nick, I just, I feel like even talking to him and like, being around friends that, like, get me in the way that they do is just so, so helpful. So that's great.
Jessica Altchiler
I think we're gonna wrap this thing up, what do you think?
Ramita Ravi
Let's do it. So fun, good. So nice.
Jessica Altchiler
It's been so nice. And I feel like what could be really nice as doing a follow up in like six months or something when you've had a little more space and time to like, heal and process your experiences, and then to have some space some time away, and then come back into another conversation and see where you are. Because you are in this very transitional time. You just had such a crazy fucking professional experience, so intensive, in many ways. And now it's a pause and a reboot and a reset. And I'm really excited to see what is going to continue unfolding for you. And I think there's a lot of ways in which we can make things together. Across the board. I really excited about that.
Ramita Ravi
Yeah, absolutely. I've like so I want to hear also like everything that you're working on. And I'm just like, every time you post a new thing on Instagram, I'm like, Yes, she's doing it, because like you talked about all these things like couple months ago. And it's just so exciting to see,
Jessica Altchiler
thank you so much for being here. Thank you for all of the work that you're doing and for your honesty, and how you've impacted the lives of so many artists. And so many people like the work that you've done as a performer and what you have done representing a community with like, even though you shouldn't have to have all of that weight on your shoulders, you've done such a beautiful job with it. And it's just going to keep evolving so that more and more people are joining you up on that stage in front of the camera. And you've done such important beautiful work. And I can't even begin to imagine how difficult it has truly been. But I celebrate you, and I am here for you in any way that I can possibly be here for you. And I also thank you so much for creating arts work and this platform for artists that I know it's just going to continue evolving and continue supporting all of us. So thank you for all of who you are and for everything that you're doing. And I'm so grateful that we were connected now.
Ramita Ravi
I am literally going to cry or that says thank you for all you're doing. I'm just like, so grateful to know you. This amazing.
Speaker 1
Okay, well, thank you. I love you. I hope you have a beautiful week and we'll talk soon probably talk this. Yes, yeah. Okay.
Jessica Altchiler
Thank you so much for listening to the story project. It is a dream come true to get to share these stories with you. And I'm so grateful for every single guests and audience member if you're enjoying the podcast, it would be such a great help if you could do a couple things. First is to follow the podcast on Spotify or Apple podcasts wherever you listen to. The next would be to rate five stars and also give us a review. And finally, share any episodes that you like with the people that you love. This is a podcast for the community. And the hope is that it can reach as many people as possible from the bottom of my heart. Thank you for being here. Until next time